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Hi guys,

Just wondering if anyone can offer advice on how to deal with the following strategies. I play in what is a friendly but competative environment.

I play as Eldar + Dark Eldar (Jet-Seer Council backed up by Wave Serpents and Venoms)

My most regular opponents are:

Blood Angel Mass Terminator and Razorback Spam
Space Wolf Long Fang Spam and Centurion Deathstar Allies
Tau Gun Line
Grey Knight Draigo Wing
Cron-Air
Double and Triple Helldrake lists etc.........

The point is im still kinda new to playing even though ive been on these forums for a while now. I'm not peaved at how my games have gone as i have had many laughs and i have been browsing various topics on here to build up my knowledge, but I want to get significantly better - the list has been analysed on here and seems solid enough, so it is definately user error, lol.

Looking to start a discussion on how to play this list effectively, are there definate do's and don'ts for playing against each of the above armies ?

Thanks in advance

Is this your working list?

More or less, I sometimes drop the Warp Spiders and Cannons on the Jetbikes to take a 3rd Wave Serpent with Dire Avengers in it.

If you're looking to change it at all...2 Crimson Hunters and/or a Falcon would give your friends some hassle. That's a lot of dead Termies/Centurions/Broadsides/Heldrakes/Croissants (Doubles out Paladins)

More Bright Lance Walkers would have the same effect...but less good against fliers.

One of your main problems is going to be going second...if you're not going first...your deathstar is up in the air whether it lives or not.

OK, I have more War Walkers already and can probably buy a falcon/second Crimson Hunter in the near future. So do you feel that its an issue with the list vs these armies or am I just on a learning curve still ?

I can't pretend to know Seerstar, I don't even own a Jetbike that isn't a Solitaire, Farseer, or Shining Spear.

...this is an Eldar thread though, so it should be a matter of time before the internet ninjas appear.

But I do a see few armies above that wouldn't be scared of your list.

Can you give us some detail on how you seem to be losing? Are you getting totally wiped out, or is it more a question of not being able to get enough victory points?

How good are you at judging what a unit is likely to achieve? Do you often find that you fail to commit enough firepower to take out the target you want to or get into assaults you don't win? Would you say that you are familiar with most of the rules you need to know and have a good grasp of the capabilities of each enemy unit?

What units are you having problems dealing with? Which of your units don't seem to be earning their keep?

What kind of terrain do you usually play with? Are there large objects that you can hide a unit behind, or just small stuff which grants cover saves? Do you set up the terrain as part of your strategy, or do you generally play on 'narrative driven' tables?

What ability do you have to reinforce certain elements of your army mid-game? Can you switch from tank hunting to horde killing as needed? What are your priority targets and why?

Check out Team Stomping Grounds' videos on youtube and ser how Matt de Franza plays his Seer Council. Should give you some tips.

Thanks Thud, will do.

@Perfect Organism:

My win loss ratio is actually about 50/50 but the wins are narrow margins and the losses tend to be bigger and I have only been tabled once so far.

I think im still learning the capabilities of my own army tbh, and am taking my opponents on face value alot of the time as to how their codex rules interract. I tend to go unit by unit with shooting at a target until the desired effect has been achieved. For example if im able to stop a razorback from moving and shooting for a turn, then I tend to move onto another target rather than keep on hitting it until its destroyed. Dunno if thats right or not tbh. I certainly need to think more about the capabilities of the key enemy units more, and perhaps work on identifying what the key units are. For example I tend to view armies in 3 sections. Death Star Units, Scoring Units and the rest. Maybe that is a flaw in my logic perhaps ?

The biggest pain is proving to be either 2+ Armour saves or lots of flyers. Specifically Cron-Air and multi Helldrake lists.

The wave serpents absorb alot of fire as does the council, but my game tonight (which i won) was the first time that I managed to deal with the 10 man Terminator Squad. That took a triple Horrify and lots of shooting to force a leadership test.

Terrain in usually pretty sparse in our games. Though I have just bought a Battle Board and am going to invest in a fair amount of scenenry to try and make our games more like the battle reports i have seen online. Im hoping to style an Eldar settlement on the edge of some woods so i guess im looking at a narative style, but currently we just throw 6 peices of terrain down, one on each 2x2 board.

I think i am capable of switching to hoarde kill. If i can keep the venoms alive then they certainly help with that. Usually i look to take out the death star unit first, or if that seems unlikely (like massive nobb mob on mega armour) then i try and stay away and keep it out of the game that way. Then i go after scoring units one at a time.

Hope that helps ?

I asked a similar question in another thread and am very curious to hear where Eldar players come down on this: for the armies listed in this thread, what are your target priorities? I tend to view armies exactly as OP described: Stars, scoring units, and everything else. Is it better to target the Star, or the scoring units? Do those priorities change as the game progresses?

Stars are best pitted early in combat by an appropriate unit. This saves you firepower to focus on more important units early in the game, and allows you to deal with the star late in the game when it becomes a stretch for the opponent to press you hard with fewer remaining units.

 Shemyaza wrote:
My win loss ratio is actually about 50/50 but the wins are narrow margins and the losses tend to be bigger and I have only been tabled once so far.

That sounds pretty good for a new player in a competitive environment, actually. Narrow victories vs. big losses is roughly how I would expect your list to work; it's an army of expensive specialists who rely on each other for support. When it works, it's good. When things go wrong, they will go very wrong. Concentrate on getting the win ratio up and accept that when you lose, you are going to lose hard.

 Shemyaza wrote:
I think im still learning the capabilities of my own army tbh, and am taking my opponents on face value alot of the time as to how their codex rules interract. I tend to go unit by unit with shooting at a target until the desired effect has been achieved. For example if im able to stop a razorback from moving and shooting for a turn, then I tend to move onto another target rather than keep on hitting it until its destroyed. Dunno if thats right or not tbh. I certainly need to think more about the capabilities of the key enemy units more, and perhaps work on identifying what the key units are. For example I tend to view armies in 3 sections. Death Star Units, Scoring Units and the rest. Maybe that is a flaw in my logic perhaps ?

That all seems perfectly fine. As you become more familiar with different units and get a better grasp of what they can do, you will make better decisions on what needs to be taken out first and what you can use to achieve that. That will come with experience and study. You've grasped the basics, now you need to work on the details.

 Shemyaza wrote:
The biggest pain is proving to be either 2+ Armour saves or lots of flyers. Specifically Cron-Air and multi Helldrake lists.

That's really no surprise at all. Those are tough units to kill and you have very little anti-air capability. I'm guessing that you mostly rely on the wave serpents, hitting with the SL and then twin-linking everything else, to take down fliers. Not a terrible strategy, but not optimal either. Adding some kind of fortification with an anti-air gun or taking a Crimson Hunter would probably help a lot.

My advice on how to win is bring more troops. too often I see people with half their army tied up in a deathstar unit and two diddly little troops choices, cowering in a corner desperately hoping I fool for the big "focus on me!" sign above the deathstar. by turn 3 I'm usually only facing a deathstar, and then I focus on giving it too much to think about - I have 3 objectives, in 3 different places, and a heavy firepower unit over there that's giving you hassle, and you only have 4 turns or less to try and deal with me. Deathstars only really become effective if your opponent brought their own, inferior deathstar, otherwise they never make their points back.

I'd drop the whole seer council on jetbike shenanigans and ask yourself "so what does it do?". if it was mainly for dealing with infantry, get a nightspinner, if it was for dealing with vehicles, get a wraithknight. oh wait, it was so expensive you could get both, and some troops too!

A balanced list will invariably be more fun to play with than a WAAC deathstar list.

Thanks for the feedback guys

I'm not quite ready yet to give up on fielding the seer council as i have just invested £200 just in getting it built, lol.

I have actually revised my list slightly and re-posted in the lists section. I think I need to accept that some armies will just stomp me regardless as it is a bad match-up for me. As you said, i'm still learning and need to work on the details.

Also, I will lose games due to tactical errors on my part and sometimes the dice gods just don't favor you either.

I will consider adding the Crimson Hunter tbh, but not sure where i can free up the points to fit it in.

Thanks again !