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I Read a post where a guy campaigned for 11pt csm with plasma pistol as a 5 pt upgrade. While I disagreed with 90% of what he was saying currently the humble pistol is unused mostly due to over costing. All plasma weapons in the MEQ dexes cost 15 pts and its easy to see why

Cannon
We will call this the baseline. Heavy blasting weapon

Gun
Trades the blast and 12 inches of range for rapid fire, I think this a good deal

Pistol
Trades 12 inches of range and rapid fire for pistol status. Normally resulting in +1 attack for the wielder. This is not a good deal

Thoughts

I think plasma is both over and underpriced at the same time.

For example, a plasma pistol for 15 pts, with that short range and risk of gets hot it is not a popular choice. I would support a point decrease of plasma pistol to 10 points across the board.

Now, when you put a 4 plasma cannons in a devastator squad for 15 points each, I think the cost is too low.

I did run a devastator plasma squad in the 5'th edition where a plasma cannon did cost 25 points, and they worked their points back almost every game, often obliterating whole enemy squads at a time (forcing my enemy either to die or deal with the threat).

A plasma cannon here and there, like in a tactical squad is not a big deal, but whey you mass them like devastator squads do, they should increase in points. I think 20 points per plasma cannon of all units that can have more than 2 would be a good start. And if 20 points are still too cheap, it could be raised even more.

flodihn wrote:
I think plasma is both over and underpriced at the same time.

For example, a plasma pistol for 15 pts, with that short range and risk of gets hot it is not a popular choice. I would support a point decrease of plasma pistol to 10 points across the board.

Now, when you put a 4 plasma cannons in a devastator squad for 15 points each, I think the cost is too low.

I did run a devastator plasma squad in the 5'th edition where a plasma cannon did cost 25 points, and they worked their points back almost every game, often obliterating whole enemy squads at a time (forcing my enemy either to die or deal with the threat).

A plasma cannon here and there, like in a tactical squad is not a big deal, but whey you mass them like devastator squads do, they should increase in points. I think 20 points per plasma cannon of all units that can have more than 2 would be a good start. And if 20 points are still too cheap, it could be raised even more.

I agree I would also approve of upping the cost of combi-plasmas to 12points. Their basically a free plasma pistol at 10points and they instantly become the nail in the coffin for the pistol. At 12 points for the combi and 10 for the pistol you would need to think more carefully about what you would use

Combi- weapons are also supposed to be rare. Not so bloody common that every sargeant and their mum has one. Get real ya know

 ionusx wrote:

flodihn wrote:
I think plasma is both over and underpriced at the same time.

For example, a plasma pistol for 15 pts, with that short range and risk of gets hot it is not a popular choice. I would support a point decrease of plasma pistol to 10 points across the board.

Now, when you put a 4 plasma cannons in a devastator squad for 15 points each, I think the cost is too low.

I did run a devastator plasma squad in the 5'th edition where a plasma cannon did cost 25 points, and they worked their points back almost every game, often obliterating whole enemy squads at a time (forcing my enemy either to die or deal with the threat).

A plasma cannon here and there, like in a tactical squad is not a big deal, but whey you mass them like devastator squads do, they should increase in points. I think 20 points per plasma cannon of all units that can have more than 2 would be a good start. And if 20 points are still too cheap, it could be raised even more.

I agree I would also approve of upping the cost of combi-plasmas to 12points. Their basically a free plasma pistol at 10points and they instantly become the nail in the coffin for the pistol. At 12 points for the combi and 10 for the pistol you would need to think more carefully about what you would use

Combi- weapons are also supposed to be rare. Not so bloody common that every sargeant and their mum has one. Get real ya know

To be fair, Marines are pretty rare in themselves...

 Ashiraya wrote:

 ionusx wrote:

flodihn wrote:
I think plasma is both over and underpriced at the same time.

For example, a plasma pistol for 15 pts, with that short range and risk of gets hot it is not a popular choice. I would support a point decrease of plasma pistol to 10 points across the board.

Now, when you put a 4 plasma cannons in a devastator squad for 15 points each, I think the cost is too low.

I did run a devastator plasma squad in the 5'th edition where a plasma cannon did cost 25 points, and they worked their points back almost every game, often obliterating whole enemy squads at a time (forcing my enemy either to die or deal with the threat).

A plasma cannon here and there, like in a tactical squad is not a big deal, but whey you mass them like devastator squads do, they should increase in points. I think 20 points per plasma cannon of all units that can have more than 2 would be a good start. And if 20 points are still too cheap, it could be raised even more.

I agree I would also approve of upping the cost of combi-plasmas to 12points. Their basically a free plasma pistol at 10points and they instantly become the nail in the coffin for the pistol. At 12 points for the combi and 10 for the pistol you would need to think more carefully about what you would use

Combi- weapons are also supposed to be rare. Not so bloody common that every sargeant and their mum has one. Get real ya know

To be fair, Marines are pretty rare in themselves...

Yes and their wargear is even rarer. Terminator armor doesn't just rain from the sky and nobody makes dreadnaughts anymore. Their are only about a 20 or so vengeance pattern land speeders in existence, and don't get me started on force weapons.

Given the comparative pragmatism of the Techmarines, you'd think the idea of bolting a Boltgun and a special weapon together is not beyond their capabilities.

Do you have any real source that says combi-weapons are extremely rare?

I think 15 is a good price point for the gun and cannon. 10 for the pistol is much better. 5 is to low.

With the armory system of pricing, we need to keep the same cost across the army, so the fact that dev squads get more milage out of heavies gets marginalized. But I’m OK with them paying a lower price then before. My Devs are seeing a lot more table time these days.

The pistol really should be 10 points. 15 is too high, especially for models that are not characters. 5 might even be alright, I think 8 points sounds right.

Many of the pistols are too expensive. Infernus pistols(melta) and Blast Pistols(Dark Light) are also silly expensive.

it's silly to restrict the point costs to multiples of 5.

The pistol should be somewhere between 8-10 points.

I'd shoot for seven points. Put guns at 10, cannons at 20, combi at 10, or 12 in certain cases (Sternguard).

 liquidjoshi wrote:
I'd shoot for seven points. Put guns at 10, cannons at 20, combi at 10, or 12 in certain cases (Sternguard).

I would like to see them cheaper, but perhaps more dangerous. I really dont like how rerolling to hit makes the downside(overheat) so unlikely.

Agreed. Re-rolling could keep the Gets Hot! wound, but allow a hit, while a second 1 simply misses. The difficulty is keeping it somewhat dangerous to marines, while not just melting Guardsmen the second they touch it.

Pistols at 5. They're still 12" weapons with Gets Hot! after all. You're not going to get much out of them in an average game.

what's OP's actual proposition?

no proposition, I just find It weird that they are all the same price despite the gun and cannon being better than the pistol

I think plasma is too cheap, really. It's S7 AP2, is supposed to be really rare fluff wise. and it costs less than a Space Marine. That doesn't seem right to me.

It should be like -

Pistol - 10-15pts

Plasma Gun - 25 pts

Plasma Cannon - 40 points

Making plasma more expensive would also give 2+ saves a break.

The problem is when you have to consider tau. It's nowhere near as rare with them. 25 point plasma rifles would make them never be taken, especially since a naked crisis suit costs 22.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
The problem is when you have to consider tau. It's nowhere near as rare with them. 25 point plasma rifles would make them never be taken, especially since a naked crisis suit costs 22.

Well, Tau plasma would be slightly cheaper than imperial plasma, due to the -1 strength.
It would be more like 15-20pts.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
The problem is when you have to consider tau. It's nowhere near as rare with them. 25 point plasma rifles would make them never be taken, especially since a naked crisis suit costs 22.

Well, Tau plasma would be slightly cheaper than imperial plasma, due to the -1 strength.
It would be more like 15-20pts.

Well that works because plasma rilfes are already 15pts .

Wait what? S7 Ap2 imperial plasma is the same price as S6 AP2 tau plasma? That's odd.

I mean, I get that Imperial Plasma has Gets Hot, but that tends to be negligible, especially on marines.

The reward just far outweighs the risk. Imperial plasma should at least be 3pts or so more expensive than tau plasma.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It's S7 AP2, is supposed to be really rare fluff wise. and it costs less than a Space Marine. That doesn't seem right to me.

Tacticals cost 14 ppm, Plasma Guns cost 15

 Ashiraya wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It's S7 AP2, is supposed to be really rare fluff wise. and it costs less than a Space Marine. That doesn't seem right to me.

Tacticals cost 14 ppm, Plasma Guns cost 15

Ok, 1 point more than a marine. Still doesn't quite change much.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It's S7 AP2, is supposed to be really rare fluff wise. and it costs less than a Space Marine. That doesn't seem right to me.

Tacticals cost 14 ppm, Plasma Guns cost 15

Ok, 1 point more than a marine. Still doesn't quite change much.

I'd argue that there's considerably more Plasma Guns than Space Marines in the Imperium.

After all, Guardsmen use them not very rarely.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wait what? S7 Ap2 imperial plasma is the same price as S6 AP2 tau plasma? That's odd.

I mean, I get that Imperial Plasma has Gets Hot, but that tends to be negligible, especially on marines.

The reward just far outweighs the risk. Imperial plasma should at least be 3pts or so more expensive than tau plasma.

Remember that imperial plasma often REPLACES a boltgun, which is not free while a Tau rifle in most cases is giving a model a shooting attack.

 Exergy wrote:

 liquidjoshi wrote:
I'd shoot for seven points. Put guns at 10, cannons at 20, combi at 10, or 12 in certain cases (Sternguard).

I would like to see them cheaper, but perhaps more dangerous. I really dont like how rerolling to hit makes the downside(overheat) so unlikely.

I feel plasma should be the exact opposite. These powerful weapons that are almost artifacts in how rare and ancient most of them all, and it isn't that hard to have an army with well over a dozen plasma weapons.