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+++ 2SR 1LR .a (1846pts) +++
+++ 1850pt Blood Angels 5th Edition Roster (Primary Detachment)) +++

Selections:

Blood Angels 5th Edition (Primary Detachment) Selections:

+ HQ + (135pts)

* Reclusiarch (135pts)
Melta Bombs
* Power Armour
Bolt Pistol


+ Elites + (465pts)

* Furioso Dreadnought (135pts)
* Furioso (135pts)
Blood Talon with built-in Meltagun
* Blood Talon
Built-in Heavy Flamer


* Sanguinary Priests (105pts)
* Sanguinary Priest (105pts)
Brother Corbulo (55pts)


* Terminator Assault Squad (225pts)
5x Terminator with Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield (225pts)


+ Troops + (844pts)

* Assault Squad (421pts)
9x Assault Marines , Flamer , Flamer
* Land Raider Redeemer (216pts)
Pintle Multi Melta , Searchlight
* Veteran Sergeant
Melta Bombs


* Assault Squad (128pts)
5x Assault Marines , Flamer , Retain Jump Packs
* Veteran Sergeant
Melta Bombs


* Death Company (295pts)
11x Death Company Marine , 3x Power Fist


+ Heavy Support + (402pts)

* Stormraven Gunship (201pts)
Searchlight , Twin Linked Multi Melta, Twin Linked Plasma Cannon


* Stormraven Gunship (201pts)
Searchlight , Twin Linked Lascannon, Twin Linked Multi Melta

Run the death company in the LR with Reclusiarch
Deploy only the LR and 6 man assault squad

Give the enemy no targets except the land raider

5 man terminator assault squad with corbulo in 1 SR

10 man assault squad with no jump packs (go combat squads) with furioso in the other SR



I struggle between death company dread and furioso

That extra scoring unit as a dreadnought is huge!! However armor 13 from a dread is joke

Thoughts?



Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

Level 1 libbies are better than reclusiarchs.

I'd change the furioso to a fragnought.

I'd change the redeemer to a god hammer config. Or crusader.

Recluse with death company is amazing. Anyone who has been charged by a death company with liturgies of the blood on effect know it's death to every member of a squad being charged. On a turn they charge they get to reroll all to hit rolls and to wound rolls. Death company from a land raider get at least 1 charge in a game if not 2

What's a god hammer config

Flame storm cannons from a raider is lovely
The death company is already wrecking havoc on anything in front of them the land raider is good support next to them.

Secondly the dread

What's the logic on the fraggioso

It seems situational? Or is fraggioso always the way to go?

You are very light on scoring. Death Company and DC Dreadnoughts do not score.

"Recluse with death company is amazing. Anyone who has been charged by a death company with liturgies of the blood on effect know it's death to every member of a squad being charged. On a turn they charge they get to reroll all to hit rolls and to wound rolls. Death company from a land raider get at least 1 charge in a game if not 2 "

Libby can do the same thing with prescience. DC are overkill in the current meta anyway. The DC will come out, kill one unit and then get shot off the table. No one cares.

Fragnoughts are the best unit in the BA codex. They are not situational. Blood talons are weak sauce with all the 2+ armor running around.

Godhammer = lascannons and heavy bolters. I haven't lost a model to a flamestorm cannon in a long, long time. Their effective reach just sucks out loud.

And yes, the lack of scoring is huge since BA can't table anyone anymore.

This is my lack of knowledge then. While I know death company is not a scoring unit. The death company dreadnought is under the troop category and says nothing about it not bring a scoring unit. So because it's a vehicle, it's not a scoring unit even though it's under the troop section?

Correct. Vehicles don't usually score. And I believe it has black rage as well, so it doesn't score for two reasons. And it sucks anyway compared to furioso because it is not AV 13. The drop off from AV 13 to AV 12 is very significant.

And in 6th ed, there is no reason to EVER use a reclusiarch over a libby. None. Prescience is so much better than the reclusiarch buffs its pathetic.

Couple of questions from me, why are your Sanguinary Priests 105pts? Also do you face a lot of Armour? You have Melta Bombs everywhere...

Your Terminators can deep strike so putting them in a transport seems kinda pointless, I would drop a Stormraven pick up a Libby W/Jump Pack and boost the assault squads with the points left over.

I personally like using Land Raider Crusaders but each to there own.

PastelAvenger wrote:


Your Terminators can deep strike so putting them in a transport seems kinda pointless, I would drop a Stormraven pick up a Libby W/Jump Pack and boost the assault squads with the points left over.

I personally like using Land Raider Crusaders but each to there own.

He has the termies in a raven so corbulo can go with them. They wouldn't be able to port in with him. Also, assuming the raven lives a turn, they can assault out of it instead of sitting in the open for a round. I've personally used the corbulo thunderhammer squad in a raven a few times. It's pretty scary durable as long as there aren't 2 or 3 Ion accelerators staring at it.

I prefer crusaders as my main land raider, but I like redeemers more than godhammers.

DC are overkill in the current meta anyway. The DC will come out, kill one unit and then get shot off the table. No one cares.
And in 6th ed, there is no reason to EVER use a reclusiarch over a libby. None. Prescience is so much better than the reclusiarch buffs its pathetic.

Some metas are different. I prefer the divination libby over a recluse on everything but DC, sure, but the reroll to wound and the lack of being able to perils (which I do A LOT) really push the cluse over the libby when DC are involved. Then of course there's the significant stat buffs all over the place for 30 points. There's also some shadows in the warp to worry about from bugs.

And maybe it's just my tactics, but I don't lose my death company after one charge...like...ever. It's possibly because anytime I build and run a list, all my forces are synchronized to strike at the same time, and I target the things that might wipe them before that happens (or the things in the way of those things so I can assault the trouble unit in question.) So when the DC hop out of their raider, other squads are also hopping out nearby, causing threat overload in a specific section of the table.

As far as overkill, I regularly play against a csm guy who regularly runs 9 plague marines and a nurgle lord in a chaos raider. A 15 DC charge, even with a recluse, actually comes JUST shy of completely killing the unit. And the ork player I run against the most loves running a ghaz+KFF mek+nobs deathstar in a wagon. They also, assuming it has FNP and they get all 15 guys in combat, but without considering special weapons, only deal a little over 4 wounds to a riptide. (and people try to say those things aren't broken...hah!)

As far as furiosos go, I like blood talons. I don't run into much 2+ armor on the field, and if I do, I put the talons furioso NOT NEAR THEM. (People around here seem to think there's an ion riptide hiding around every corner, so in many of my lists, I don't bother bringing ANYTHING to handle 2+ armor, other than the meltaguns after they did their vehicle hunting, and I've gotten quite a BA win streak going.) Frag cannons are cool and definitely a viable route, but I can't see them deserving praise such as "best unit in book."

I don't like flamers on assault squads. Flamers are good at killing lots of small fries. Assault marines are already good at that. I'd rather get two meltas in each squad to make them multi-threat, and have the ability to blow a transport and assault the contents by themselves if necessary. With that, I'd drop the melta bombs off the characters.

Again this is all from the eyes of my own area's meta. YMMV

I'd drop the jump packing assault marines for regular ones with . When I play BA my base list that I use never has any jump infantry, they're always either points fillers or try-outs for me as even though assault marines (and I suppose sanguinary guard) are the only unit in the book where jump packs aren't something that you have to pay through the nose for, I find a razorback with 5-6 marines and a flamer is great for holding or taking objectives that aren't TOO heavily contested and at 1850pts you need at least 3. Thin the DC a bit if you must, as although the DC are great they're made for at most contesting objectives and should never be held still.

I run a list that is almost identical to yours with one or two changes other than that; I take the death company dread too as for the price of stormravens I generally like to have them bringing as much force as possible considering the price. Since the ravens are really anti tank themselves (speaking of which you should probably swap out the plasma cannon for lascannons) I'd make the DC more anti infantry, so basically swap out two of the power fists for power swords.

If you did decide to take the DC dread then I'd make that one with the BT and the furioso a fragioso.

I'd try and get as much armour as possible into the list via rhinos, vindicators, ect, just to give your opponent something to keep them occupied in before the SRs arrive. They're your heavy hitters, but you can't put too much into them units wise, as otherwise your stuff on the ground gets picked off too quickly and you loose all your scoring units.

I realise that the adjustments I've given cost points so here are some things I'd consider dropping; The melta bombs, some pricier wargear (PF), a few DC members, and a replacement of the regular assault marines for objective holding ones.

P.S I'm pro Reclusiarch. I'm not getting into the details of why as arguing this seems to be a BA player's burden, but I'm definitely in favour of them

" causing threat overload in a specific section of the table. "

BA generally don't have the model count to do this properly. I guess if you opponent sets up completely wrong this will work.

"but I can't see them deserving praise such as "best unit in book." "

Name something better. Not that I'm saying that the fragnought is a great unit in the scheme of things, that's just how bad the rest of the codex is.

"P.S I'm pro Reclusiarch. I'm not getting into the details of why as arguing this seems to be a BA player's burden, but I'm definitely in favour of them"

Please explain this. I don't understand what the Reclusiarch does for you that a libby doesn't do better. The libby also has access to AP 2 instant death.

Martel732 wrote:


"P.S I'm pro Reclusiarch. I'm not getting into the details of why as arguing this seems to be a BA player's burden, but I'm definitely in favour of them"

Please explain this. I don't understand what the Reclusiarch does for you that a libby doesn't do better. The libby also has access to AP 2 instant death.

I DID say I didn't want to but if you insist...

Basically I just find that It's good to have something that turns a roving death squad into a roving genocide squad. Sure, Libbies have some good things too but they don't really complement my play style. I play by putting a much force as possible into two storm ravens and use them to cripple the enemy by turn 3-4, and as such I try and make the contents as killy as possible. Everything else on the ground is made up of small assault squads in rhinos, maybe a vindicator and a land raider. They're really only there to put pressure on the opponent and seize mid table and deployment zone objectives. The libby really doesn't have a place in a death company considering how a chaplain or rechlusiarch can buff it, the assault squads are too small and don't give him any targets and the termie squad always has courbo or a priest in it.

So this isn't about stats or what he does by himself, it's really about that he has no place in the army I would use. He's not tough enough to run around the place in such a suicidal fashion and the only thing he would be doing otherwise is taking potshots at tanks and heavy armour

I really hate to agree with Martel but he hits the nail on the head for everything. Librarians are superior in every way to a Reclusiarch. The Librarian offers a tremendous amount more flexibility, and honestly any unit that shines only when with another unit is far too limited to be of any use. Sending Reclusiarch in with DC will only get him killed (as they are MEANT to do) and serve as giving up a free Slay the Warlord point. I truly love DC, they are my favorite unit in the BA codex, but every single time that I run a Reclusiarch he gets gakked hard. Add to the fact that the Librarian can replicate (to a degree) the Reclusiarch's ability every turn and not just on the charge you have for a superior HQ.

Fragioso dreads are also easily one of the best units in the codex. Blood Talons are very nice if you have lots of squishy targets to throw them at but in the end the Blood Fist/Frag Cannon combo will wreck more face. The Blood Fist will be superior in every single situation because A) it will instagib smaller units, and B) is capable of tackling hardened targets light years better than Blood Talons would. The Frag Cannon is stellar at ripping into infantry of all types making it auto include. AV13 is not a joke. It is far superior to the DC Dread. Fleet is good, but seeing as how you cannot charge afterward it really makes this ability useless. If you have to fleet your dread to get into combat range then it will either be kited and killed, or shot to death and killed. Take the Furioso, you'll be glad you did.

It is a very tough time for BA players but don't lose faith. They aren't anywhere near the best or even competitive codex, but you can still have a lot of fun with them

I just take things as they are, not as I would like them to be. I actually detest the lists I'm forced to put together because the units I like the best are just awful.

I think actually putting units in Stormravens is a death sentence for them against a good opponent. A Stormraven with a unit aboard is a legit target for an entire list and it would pay off when the whole unit instagibs all over the battlefield.

And it doesn't take a whole army to down a Stormraven, unfortunately. They are one of the most fragile units for their cost in the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 thetallestgiraffe wrote:

Martel732 wrote:


"P.S I'm pro Reclusiarch. I'm not getting into the details of why as arguing this seems to be a BA player's burden, but I'm definitely in favour of them"

Please explain this. I don't understand what the Reclusiarch does for you that a libby doesn't do better. The libby also has access to AP 2 instant death.

I DID say I didn't want to but if you insist...

Basically I just find that It's good to have something that turns a roving death squad into a roving genocide squad. Sure, Libbies have some good things too but they don't really complement my play style. I play by putting a much force as possible into two storm ravens and use them to cripple the enemy by turn 3-4, and as such I try and make the contents as killy as possible. Everything else on the ground is made up of small assault squads in rhinos, maybe a vindicator and a land raider. They're really only there to put pressure on the opponent and seize mid table and deployment zone objectives. The libby really doesn't have a place in a death company considering how a chaplain or rechlusiarch can buff it, the assault squads are too small and don't give him any targets and the termie squad always has courbo or a priest in it.

So this isn't about stats or what he does by himself, it's really about that he has no place in the army I would use. He's not tough enough to run around the place in such a suicidal fashion and the only thing he would be doing otherwise is taking potshots at tanks and heavy armour

But the libby can give you rerolls on EVERY CC phase and shooting as well. And maybe a 4++ in case you need it. And he's cheaper. And can get AP 2 weaponry. With insta-death.

" Blood Talons are very nice if you have lots of squishy targets to throw them at"

Dread with Blood Talons have to actually get their assault off, which makes them almost instantly suspect in 6th ed. As much as I hate it. Also, the 3+ to hit cap on WS makes it so you run out of extra attacks pretty quickly. You need prescience to really make them brutal, and that's another 100 pts.

The reason I'm so negative about BA is that NOTHING works the way you think that it would anymore with BA. Things that sound great on paper fail hard on the table top, so we end up resorting to gimmicks like Corbulo-led Sternguard to even get anything done. We can't bring enough firepower, our HTH is nerfed into oblivion, and other armies make us pick up the boys in red far too quickly. Our resiliency per point sucks out loud, and that's 100% fatal in 6th ed.

 Murdius Maximus wrote:
I really hate to agree with Martel but he hits the nail on the head for everything. Librarians are superior in every way to a Reclusiarch. The Librarian offers a tremendous amount more flexibility, and honestly any unit that shines only when with another unit is far too limited to be of any use. Sending Reclusiarch in with DC will only get him killed (as they are MEANT to do) and serve as giving up a free Slay the Warlord point. I truly love DC, they are my favorite unit in the BA codex, but every single time that I run a Reclusiarch he gets gakked hard. Add to the fact that the Librarian can replicate (to a degree) the Reclusiarch's ability every turn and not just on the charge you have for a superior HQ.

Fragioso dreads are also easily one of the best units in the codex. Blood Talons are very nice if you have lots of squishy targets to throw them at but in the end the Blood Fist/Frag Cannon combo will wreck more face. The Blood Fist will be superior in every single situation because A) it will instagib smaller units, and B) is capable of tackling hardened targets light years better than Blood Talons would. The Frag Cannon is stellar at ripping into infantry of all types making it auto include. AV13 is not a joke. It is far superior to the DC Dread. Fleet is good, but seeing as how you cannot charge afterward it really makes this ability useless. If you have to fleet your dread to get into combat range then it will either be kited and killed, or shot to death and killed. Take the Furioso, you'll be glad you did.

It is a very tough time for BA players but don't lose faith. They aren't anywhere near the best or even competitive codex, but you can still have a lot of fun with them

I don't think times are too hard for BA. We still have some tricks up our sleeves, like vindicators that can move 12 inches a turn and still shoot, we still have the GOOD heroic intervention, Mephiston, sanguinary priests and quite a lot more.

 thetallestgiraffe wrote:

 Murdius Maximus wrote:
I really hate to agree with Martel but he hits the nail on the head for everything. Librarians are superior in every way to a Reclusiarch. The Librarian offers a tremendous amount more flexibility, and honestly any unit that shines only when with another unit is far too limited to be of any use. Sending Reclusiarch in with DC will only get him killed (as they are MEANT to do) and serve as giving up a free Slay the Warlord point. I truly love DC, they are my favorite unit in the BA codex, but every single time that I run a Reclusiarch he gets gakked hard. Add to the fact that the Librarian can replicate (to a degree) the Reclusiarch's ability every turn and not just on the charge you have for a superior HQ.

Fragioso dreads are also easily one of the best units in the codex. Blood Talons are very nice if you have lots of squishy targets to throw them at but in the end the Blood Fist/Frag Cannon combo will wreck more face. The Blood Fist will be superior in every single situation because A) it will instagib smaller units, and B) is capable of tackling hardened targets light years better than Blood Talons would. The Frag Cannon is stellar at ripping into infantry of all types making it auto include. AV13 is not a joke. It is far superior to the DC Dread. Fleet is good, but seeing as how you cannot charge afterward it really makes this ability useless. If you have to fleet your dread to get into combat range then it will either be kited and killed, or shot to death and killed. Take the Furioso, you'll be glad you did.

It is a very tough time for BA players but don't lose faith. They aren't anywhere near the best or even competitive codex, but you can still have a lot of fun with them

I don't think times are too hard for BA. We still have some tricks up our sleeves, like vindicators that can move 12 inches a turn and still shoot, we still have the GOOD heroic intervention, Mephiston, sanguinary priests and quite a lot more.

Vindicators are awful. They have no way to ignore cover. Fail. And are effectively AV 11. Sanguinary priests may well be not worth their points at all anymore either with ion accelerators running around. Mephiston is now a super bully. What he bullies, he bullies very well, but any jerk off with a 2+ save can tarpit him for a long time.

Martel732 wrote:

Vindicators are awful. They have no way to ignore cover. Fail. And are effectively AV 11. Sanguinary priests may well be not worth their points at all anymore either with ion accelerators running around. Mephiston is now a super bully. What he bullies, he bullies very well, but any jerk off with a 2+ save can tarpit him for a long time.

I can't say I run into TOO many ion accelerators but I'm sure if you do face them they're be an issue for priests.

And I don't believe vindicators are awful at all. Sure cover save can be annoying but vindicators stop ANYTHING from advancing up out of cover and do well to put immense pressure on opposition flanks when they can move that fast. They're also great for cracking armour, as they will almost never miss a vehicle and even have a 2/3 chance of penetrating a land raider and a 3/4 of glancing or better.

Pretty much every weapon in the game can't ignore cover. Lascannons don't ignore cover and neither do plasma cannons, plasma guns, you name it and due to their range (demolisher cannons) cover generally isn't a problem anyway.

And yeah, 2+ saves are a bitch for mephison, but seeing as how slow something with 2+ armour usually is I never have any troubles keeping away from it.

Thanks, for the valuable input, for sake of logic, the only thing to do is try some of these suggestions out. I'll switch out the Reclus for a libby and see about the flexibility first hand.

Now that I know the DC dread is not scoring, Furioso is the obvious choice, armor 13 over 12 is just too much to pass on.

I'll also forgo the Blood Talons and opt for the frag cannon + blood fist.

The logic for the blood talons in case you were wondering, was that i would load the dread with the Assault terrmies, the termies would handle anything beefy 2+ armor if it's out there, while the blood talons with a (heavy flamer) would wreck any squad with 3+ armor or lower. That was the logic at least and it seemed to work fine.

Also if the storm raven gets blown up with the terminators, they are still getting there 3+ invul saves which is beyond huge, granted corbulo will die and the dreadnought might be in some trouble. However it forces the opponent to fire on that storm raven more often than not. It leaves the other storm raven, (10 man assault squad) pretty open to do whatever.

what if only 1 storm raven comes out? It can happen, however with corbulo's re roll per game, that's pretty big to me it seems when it goes to needing 2 rolls of 3+ to get both storm ravens on turn 2.

with that being said though, I'll go with the libby for a few games as well as the frag dread + blood fist.

I understand the logic of replacing flamers with melta guns. I just have a love of flamers, (granted I play against orks the most) that's prob why.

Thanks for the brovice

"granted corbulo will die"

Corbulo can LOS onto the terminators. But it still wipes out 1/3 of the squad.

I have been doing this wrong too.... I didn't know you could LOS from that kind of situation. Good to know. I'm sure this is wrong, but please verify if you choose. An example, lets say you got Ghaz in a Ork battle waggon with 18 other boyz. it blows up, therefor 19 S4 hits occur. Lets say 10 go through, Ghaz could could only make 1 save attempt at 2+ or have a boy do a LOS, correct? He couldn't have Ghaz try to make 10 saves at 2+ vs having his boyz take a 6+ armor save, correct?

Right, this is true, may be better to just let corbulo die pending upon what the terminators are about to fight. If the following turn they're going to charge or be charged into a group that will inflict instant death on them, the FNP is worthless.

BloodAngels1988 wrote:
I have been doing this wrong too.... I didn't know you could LOS from that kind of situation. Good to know. I'm sure this is wrong, but please verify if you choose. An example, lets say you got Ghaz in a Ork battle waggon with 18 other boyz. it blows up, therefor 19 S4 hits occur. Lets say 10 go through, Ghaz could could only make 1 save attempt at 2+ or have a boy do a LOS, correct? He couldn't have Ghaz try to make 10 saves at 2+ vs having his boyz take a 6+ armor save, correct?

Right, this is true, may be better to just let corbulo die pending upon what the terminators are about to fight. If the following turn they're going to charge or be charged into a group that will inflict instant death on them, the FNP is worthless.

I think vehicle explosions hit each model in the unit. There is only one hit coming in on Ghaz, just as there is only one coming in on Corbs. Corbs isn't terrible in HTH, he's got a rending weapon.