Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Suppose you had the following block.

Skeletons, 5 wide, full command with two wraiths and two necromancers.

First rank is both wraiths and command unit, necromancers in second rank.

Lets say you get charged and the champ dies, with a necromancer stepping up. If you successfully cast invocation and raise the champion, where does he go?

A. First rank, displacing a character
B. Second rank, displacing a R&F

If B, can the champion make way and displace a character?

Thanks! I'm trying to understand if I can plug the hole in the wall in this manner.

If I can't, I suppose it may be worth it consider getting a third wraith.

Characters can displace command by making way.
When you summon, models are placed in the back rank.
The unit champion is recovered first.
The rules for command say they must go in the front rank, and characters rank up behind them.

I think the unit champ does end up displacing on of the heroes up front, as the hero did not, and has not performed a Make Way.

Spending 120 points to keep a necromancer out of BSB isn't great. It's almost cheaper just to buy more necromancers, and use the variety of cheap chaff to keep them out of combat.

Its not just a necromancer, its a death choir and a level 4 master of the black arts. 180 of wraiths are guarding 700 of characters.

Its a 20 hexwraith list with a black coach, lots of ghosts.

Andy06r wrote:
Its not just a necromancer, its a death choir and a level 4 master of the black arts. 180 of wraiths are guarding 700 of characters.

Its a 20 hexwraith list with a black coach, lots of ghosts.

Damn, and all I brought was a hell heart.

-Matt

Do you mind posting bit of a list, I've never seen one like this and it sounds very interesting.
Thanks

Sure, I can repost it to army lists later as well

2400

Level 4 vampire lord, master of the black arts, periapt, preservation.

Level 2 Death Necro, Dispel
Level 2 Death Necro, Shielding
Wraith
Wraith
Wraith

20 Zombies
20 Zombies
20 Zombies Banner
20 Zombies Banner
~50 skeletons, Banner Musician Eternal Flame
5 Wolves
5 Wolves

10 Hexwraiths
10 Hexwraiths
2 Bats
2 Bats

Black Coach

I don't actually own VC yet, but it will be my second fantasy army when I get around to it and I play on universal battle. I'm crafting a list that I would be interested in playing - I picked VC for ghouls and/or ghosts.

The hell heart is hard on vampire counts regardless. Many VC list archetypes have character clustering to take advantage of buff chariots or mutual protection. No one in my current meta plays Ogres, but I don't think that Ogre Kingdoms has an answer for 20 hexwraiths.

If you aren't familar with VC, Master of the black arts lets you reroll a wind of magic dice. Black Periapt lets you transfer 2 PD to DD, or 2 DD to PD. This is the battery for the death choir and ensures I have enough dice for lore of the vampires as well. The black coach 'powers up' by rolling all of your PD and counting 6's. It's 3+/4++ and will eventually gain +1 Impact, +1S, killing blow / flaming / magical, and ethereal. It's good against heavy cav and monsters. It's not a terrorgheist, but it is a lot harder to kill.

The first rank of the skeletons is wraith, wraith, wraith, banner, musician. The second rank is skeleton, necro, vampire, necro, skeleton. Units consisting wholly of magic weapons are going to ruin me and I'd have to block it with zombies and bats. Units consisting of no magic weapons are screwed, and units with a champion/character with a single magic weapon are going to fed three wraiths and then both necros before they can get to the lord. Six phases!

So that's the bunker for a 500 point caster vampire. The offensive punch are the 20 hexwraiths used as heavy cavalry, the death choir, and the black coach. If the caster bunker can't be breached, half of my points are protected.

Thanks mate. Very interesting, with such a long bus will it it be hard to protect flanks/maneuver?

As to your original post Hawaiimatt fairly well nailed it.

Interesting.
If you like the death, try this instead.

Master Necromancer, level 4, black periapt.
Wight King, shield, Nightshroud, heavy armor.

Swap flaming banner for banner of discipline.

The Wight King gives the necromancers LD10, and is very tough to kill (T5 W3, 3+ armor, parry, and opponents lose ASF, gain ASL, and lose all weapon bonuses to strength).

You lose out on the power die re-roll, but save ~175 points!

As for hexwraiths, Ogres do have a great answer. Fire Bellies. Or having the hellheart take out your general and watching them crumble to death. Or throwing 50 gnoblars at them and just trying them up all game.
With that said, I'd take hex wraiths against ogres every time, and with ogres, sprinkle in magic weapons on ALL my characters.

-Matt

I forgot that the king had ld9, that will be worth a second look.

I don't think you ever get the champion back. I don't think regrowth will regrowth the champion cause it's a character of sorts?

It is not a character, just behaves as one under specificvinstances

After reading the regrowth spell I stand corrected.