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So for a while now I have debated whether or not starter sets are dying as a way to start a new system. Whilst games like deadzone, drop zone coomander and Dust tactics are for me currently the best starters out there. GW who at one point had some of the best starters, not only for their individual games but for each army available. That's just not true anymore a lot of their starters sets are now being priced at over £100 for new sets and £60-£70 for the older sets. For me this is far too expensive for a entry point into a game especially considering that while miniatures wise it is essentially an army in a box that's all it is. Whilst the game starters have some stunning miniatures and little bits to help you get started in this day and age are they enough?

Dust shows that you can have a starter set that contains a nice starter army as well as a rules set and the stats for the army itself. Both deadzone and drop zone commander show that terrain as well as rules stats and starter armies. Personally for me starter sets for something like 40k should have a transport, a basic troop choice and a plastics HQ choice with a small condensed army book for £50 or less maybe a deluxe edition with a piece of army specific terrain added in for a little more money would also be a good option. What are everyone's thoughts and opinions on this?

Privateer Press generally has pretty good starter sets for each army. Games Workshop games as a whole are expensive, so you shouldn't even be looking for entry into the game if you're not prepared to pay a lot of money. As for the other games, I can't really speak because I don't play/haven't played them.

I would say that starter sets, as a "game in a box" concept, are dying. But starter sets, used as a foundation point for getting into a game or expanding an army you already have, are still going strong.

GW starter sets are usually very well priced for what you get, not sure what you're on about . . .

I know people who buy several boxes to bulk up their existing forces, sell off the other half of the models for a good chunk of money back, and they even sell off the additional rulebooks which people pay good money for.

Even newcomers can figure out the costs. My buddy just got started with Chaos, and he went out and copped two DV sets, and ended up converting the loyalists to chaos and sold off the extra crap he didn't want. He now has a significant Chaos army. I intend to do the same, when the starter kit has a Xenos race I play, some day.

Don't know about the other companies, but GW's box sets are hot . . .

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I would say that starter sets, as a "game in a box" concept, are dying. But starter sets, used as a foundation point for getting into a game or expanding an army you already have, are still going strong.

I think "dying" might be a bit premature. Wild West Exodus and the Firestorm 2.0 boxed sets are both effectively "games in a box" with equally pointed starter sets for two players. Sure you can scale them up, but both of those new games are completely self-contained. Deadzone is definitely a "game in a box" with expansion possibilities. I think that starters as "game in a box" re critical to getting new players into a new game. GW is out of step though you wouldn't know it from the books included in Dark Vengeance. They want you to play it with those models, and you really need not buy any more. (We all know it's fairly mismatched in terms of point cost, but they've built that as a game in a box more or less.

I would cite X Wing as well. I was put off for ages from buying it because it only had 3 ships in the box. Then I read all the good reviews on here and jumped in. Amazed how much I enjoyed playing the game with only three models. My collection has expanded loads now, but it's another recent good starter set IMHO.

I bought xwing with an A-Wing and Interceptor expansion at the same time. I didn't feel the value in only one starter. Meanwhile, games like Deadzone and Dreadball are certainly "game in a box" with their starter sets. Privateer press starters have looked fantastic every time I've picked them up and considered buying in. And GW starters are still currently pretty damn good, considering what you get (IoB has a ton of models, and the DV box has its $100 value met simply by bikers and termies. Everything else is gravy). So starter boxes are definitely still good, even for GW. I think a lot of people don't realize how good the GW starter values still are, despite being push fit. You can STILL do a bit of modifying push fit models.

 daemonish wrote:
So for a while now I have debated whether or not starter sets are dying as a way to start a new system. Whilst games like deadzone, drop zone coomander and Dust tactics are for me currently the best starters out there. GW who at one point had some of the best starters, not only for their individual games but for each army available. That's just not true anymore a lot of their starters sets are now being priced at over £100 for new sets and £60-£70 for the older sets. For me this is far too expensive for a entry point into a game especially considering that while miniatures wise it is essentially an army in a box that's all it is. Whilst the game starters have some stunning miniatures and little bits to help you get started in this day and age are they enough?

Dust shows that you can have a starter set that contains a nice starter army as well as a rules set and the stats for the army itself. Both deadzone and drop zone commander show that terrain as well as rules stats and starter armies. Personally for me starter sets for something like 40k should have a transport, a basic troop choice and a plastics HQ choice with a small condensed army book for £50 or less maybe a deluxe edition with a piece of army specific terrain added in for a little more money would also be a good option. What are everyone's thoughts and opinions on this?

Battleforces and whatever has replaced them are not starter sets. GW never thought of them as such and so you shouldn't because you will be disappointed. The closest approximation is a "booster pack."
Dark Vengeance is a starter set. Army X's Battleforce or Strikeforce is not.

DV is great value in my book, you get loads of minis for the price when you consider its 30 quid for a tactical squad!

Malifaux "starter" boxes for crews are generally a sweet deal, as you get most of the meat and potatoes of that crew in a single box. For instance, my Colette box only "needed" the 2 Coryphees to be "complete" to the standards of most net lists.

If anything, GW is dropping the ball on starter sets and everyone else is picking up the slack.

Flames of War, Bolt Action, Dropzone Commander, X Wing, Battletech, and a ton of other games all have starter sets that are good value and very much "Games in a box". Many come with terrain too, from simple but effective cardboard terrain like Open Fire! for FoW, to an actual plastic house for Bolt Action's Assault on Normandy, to DZC's cardstock city that's included with it. Almost all come with full size and content rulebooks these days too, and the armies are usually well balanced and solid starts, unlike GW's Dark Vengeance where the Chaos side is woefully understrength compared to the Dark Angels and isn't really a strong core to build off of as is. Yes, they're normally not huge armies, but it's a starter set. It's meant to get you hooked so you'll build it up from there.

Mantic's Kings of War has a decent starter set - but then you can get the rules that are in the box as a free download, so all that you are really buying are the figures. The starter armies are also good value, and include the basic rules. (So are sort of One Player Starter Boxes.)

There are currently two starter sets for two players available for Kings of War - Morgoth Rising (Undead vs. Dwarfs) and The Two Player Battle Set (Orcs & Goblins vs. Undead).

Their Deadzone starter also has enough to start with - but much more useful for folks that want Enforcers or Plague for their starting forces.

The Auld Grump

 mattyrm wrote:
DV is great value in my book, you get loads of minis for the price when you consider its 30 quid for a tactical squad!

Where are you shopping? Even GW only charges £25 for Tactical Squads

 Flashman wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
DV is great value in my book, you get loads of minis for the price when you consider its 30 quid for a tactical squad!

Where are you shopping? Even GW only charges £25 for Tactical Squads

I checked the Yank store and it was 40 bucks, I figured that works out about 30!

Regardless the point stands, how many figures are in DV like 45 or something?

Yeah you just have to look at the market for splitting GW game boxes to see their value. I would suggest that the quality of the models is a notch above the standard miniatures that you might expect.

All in all I suggest the OP's premise is a poor one since DV and IoB are available for £65 from GW and considerably less elsewhere. Indeed it's is these sets and those that went before that have set the bar for wargame starters, a trend that others are following.

With the steady expansion of 'product' for games stores to carry starter sets and other 'package' deals are actually on the up

stores want fewer boxes on their shelves from any one manufacturer, but still to be able to carry a full range so what's on the way out is single mini blister packs

 notprop wrote:
Yeah you just have to look at the market for splitting GW game boxes to see their value. I would suggest that the quality of the models is a notch above the standard miniatures that you might expect.

All in all I suggest the OP's premise is a poor one since DV and IoB are available for £65 from GW and considerably less elsewhere. Indeed it's is these sets and those that went before that have set the bar for wargame starters, a trend that others are following.

How much of that is driven by the mini's versus that of the mini rulebook? I bought the DV starter and sold all of the models, because I wasn't paying £45 for a rulebook that's largely irrelevant when they also make a mini rulebook. As it turns out I think I more or less got the box set money back and voila free rule book. if the mini rule book was available for £10 (like the mini Malifaux book) I'd have just bought that instead of wasting so much time gluing and selling minis.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Malifaux "starter" boxes for crews are generally a sweet deal, as you get most of the meat and potatoes of that crew in a single box. For instance, my Colette box only "needed" the 2 Coryphees to be "complete" to the standards of most net lists.

Infinity starters are the same. You get roughly 150pts, which is a good starting points level. One or two additional blisters will take them to 200pts, which is a better starting points level. Newer starters match well with other boxes now too - The QK starter plus an Odalisque box, the Hassassin starter plus a Muyib box, Morat starter plus a Hungries box, etc.

It's a bit unfair judging the fate of starter boxes just on what GW is doing, just like judging any individual part of the hobby on what they do.


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 notprop wrote:
Yeah you just have to look at the market for splitting GW game boxes to see their value. I would suggest that the quality of the models is a notch above the standard miniatures that you might expect.

Having gone back to my Tyranids after spending a lot of time on Infinity models, GW really aren't the top of the quality pile anymore. A lot of the new 40k plastics are pretty poor, detail wise. The fantasy plastic are definitely still up there though.

I got the Star Trek Attack Wing starter and had a lot of fun.

Battletech says otherwise.
In the box you get everything you need to play, 2 mapsheets, QS rules, full rules and-wait for it-two FULL companies of mechs. For you non Battletech players out there, thats 24 units in a game where you only deploy 1-4 units per player for an average game.
And if that wasnt enough, you get two more special Mechs as well, currently a Battlemaster BLGR IS Assault Mech and a Timberwolf TBR Clan Heavy Mech.
So no, i dont think their dieing.

The new battletech starter that just came out last month is excellent. They finally got the 24 plastic mechs actually looking good. Probably one of the best values in gaming. Rules, nice solid board game style hex maps and 24 miniatures that actually look really good.


Way better than the plastic miniatures from the 25th anniversary starter-- those were bad.