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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/27 22:44:20
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren
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Remember that it was 6th edition (which has been out since summer '12) that made changes to plasma sponsons and such, and the AM codex only changed the main cannon on the LR Executioner.
I for one, dont mind that you have to roll 3 dice for gets hot when firing the Executioner Plasma Cannon, as you only lose a hullpoint on a further roll of 1, 2 or 3, so the chance of lose a HP by firing the EPC is only 25%. With the new Am codex having access to cheap as chips divination psykers, this drops down even further.
On the other hand, I like the change from S7 AP2 to S8 AP2, as this means insta-kill on T4 models now and also the cannon fares better against armor.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/27 22:45:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/27 22:48:55
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
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Still says S7 in my codex. I wish it was 8...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/27 22:48:55
Subject: Re:I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Lord of the Fleet
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The plasma cannon is still S7.
They nerfed the gun with gets hot, but made it significantly cheaper. Mixed back. Pask and payers help though.
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Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+
Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/27 22:54:56
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc
The darkness between the stars
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Sir Arun wrote:Remember that it was 6th edition (which has been out since summer '12) that made changes to plasma sponsons and such, and the AM codex only changed the main cannon on the LR Executioner.
I for one, dont mind that you have to roll 3 dice for gets hot when firing the Executioner Plasma Cannon, as you only lose a hullpoint on a further roll of 1, 2 or 3, so the chance of lose a HP by firing the EPC is only 25%. With the new Am codex having access to cheap as chips divination psykers, this drops down even further.
On the other hand, I like the change from S7 AP2 to S8 AP2, as this means insta-kill on T4 models now and also the cannon fares better against armor.
S7 still. My only gripe is I liked it when the Executioner didn't overheat due to fluffy reasons. It felt good. Now every time you shoot the bugger there's a 25% chance of glancing yourself. Then again, I built my Executioner to have 2 plasma cannon sponsoons so it more comes from the fact that my vehicle will die almost every game if I get to shoot every turn without even being hit by the enemy once. As per divination psykers, it's odd. By using them, it costs a bit more than the former executioner (I believe) but also presiences the group. I guess it could make 2 Executioners in a squadron pretty nasty. Also doesn't help I wanted an armored regiment with no real infantry for that army. So overall, conflicted.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/27 23:15:55
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Executing Exarch
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If you don't want to use a prescience psyker you can get the preferred enemy.
Kurov's aquila gives a 6" bubble from a chimera or taurox hull from which the unit gets preferred enemy. Very good way to keep multiple units from dying to gets hot rolls. Very useful in a mech list. If you set up in a nice bastion then you can also give it from the bastion...pretty big bubble.
Or you could take pask as your warlord. His unit gets preferred enemy and he can split fire from the unit most of the time.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/27 23:21:27
Subject: Re:I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Sneaky Lictor
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I have a real hard time feeling bad that your 5 Plasma Cannon shots a turn has a chance to hurt itself now...like everyone else. The Executioner is still amazing, I want to run a squadron of three of them as allies when I begin to build my Vostroyan allies for my SoB. Giving them prescience makes the overheat almost never happen and even when it does happen on average you are going to need to fire the thing close to 36 times a game in order for it to burn out...
Consider how much damage 36 plasma cannon shots do to an enemy before you consider how it can now burn itself out. I know that without prescience it becomes less appealing but the ability to flood the board with AM/Inquisitor/Allies with Divination I just don't feel bad that the main cannon now over hearts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/27 23:26:33
Subject: Re:I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc
The darkness between the stars
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Arbiter_Shade wrote:I have a real hard time feeling bad that your 5 Plasma Cannon shots a turn has a chance to hurt itself now...like everyone else. The Executioner is still amazing, I want to run a squadron of three of them as allies when I begin to build my Vostroyan allies for my SoB. Giving them prescience makes the overheat almost never happen and even when it does happen on average you are going to need to fire the thing close to 36 times a game in order for it to burn out...
Consider how much damage 36 plasma cannon shots do to an enemy before you consider how it can now burn itself out. I know that without prescience it becomes less appealing but the ability to flood the board with AM/Inquisitor/Allies with Divination I just don't feel bad that the main cannon now over hearts.
Meh I just miss a time where plasma on vehicles didn't hurt itself. I don't care for gets hot on vehicles in general and it mostly came down to me using a single Executioner as a center piece to my army along with a Vanquisher. I didn't really spam them as much as use them as iconic ones for my regiment. One being a commander's and one being more the favorite vehicle of the regiment. Along with that, I just don't care for bringing in allies in general. I'm just oddly picky though preferring to keep my Armored Regiment seperated from my elite regiment that is seperate from my infantry/siege regiment. Just some odd thing I've always liked to do.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/27 23:42:55
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf
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I don't like the new executioner because the chance of losing HP's are just too high. I did the calcs on it in one of the previous threads:
In a single round of shooting without sponsons:
Chance of inflicting:
0 HP = 77%
1 HP = 21%
2 HP = 2%
3 HP = 0.06%
With sponsons:
0 HP = 64.7%
1 HP = 29.4%
2 HP = 5.3%
3 HP = 0.5%
Over the course of 4 turns of shooting without sponsons:
0 HP = 35.2%
1 HP = 38.4%
2 HP = 17.2%
3 HP = 7.2%
Over the course of 4 turns of shooting with sponsons:
0 HP = 17.5%
1 HP = 31.2%
2 HP = 27.6%
3 HP = 23%
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 00:09:21
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Arbiter_Shade wrote:I have a real hard time feeling bad that your 5 Plasma Cannon shots a turn has a chance to hurt itself now... like everyone else. Sorry, can't resist: Seriously though, those stats above don't seem too bad. Even over 4 turns firing everything you only lose 1 or 0 HP about 50% of the time. Seems like a pretty good tradeoff for that many plasma shots.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/28 00:10:16
Like watching other people play video games (badly) while blathering about nothing in particular? Check out my Youtube channel: joemamaUSA!
BrianDavion wrote:Between the two of us... I think GW is assuming we the players are not complete idiots.
Rapidly on path to becoming the world's youngest bitter old man. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 03:13:37
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Fireknife Shas'el
Lisbon, Portugal
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SM still has a 3-shot plasma cannon without Gets Hot: Relic Deimos Predator, IA2A2. No luck for Guard, though.
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AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / Fallout Factions: BoS / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion: CIS / WWX: Union
Unit1126PLL wrote:"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"
Shadenuat wrote:Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 04:04:19
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc
The darkness between the stars
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Vector Strike wrote:SM still has a 3-shot plasma cannon without Gets Hot: Relic Deimos Predator, IA2A2. No luck for Guard, though.
That's more due to it being an old IA. Or at least I assume that was before 6th edition came out correct or came out near the same time?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 07:40:38
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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dementedwombat wrote:Arbiter_Shade wrote:I have a real hard time feeling bad that your 5 Plasma Cannon shots a turn has a chance to hurt itself now... like everyone else.
Sorry, can't resist:
Seriously though, those stats above don't seem too bad. Even over 4 turns firing everything you only lose 1 or 0 HP about 50% of the time. Seems like a pretty good tradeoff for that many plasma shots.
A nearly 200pt heavy battle tank having a higher chance of killing itself than inflicting no damage on itself by turn 4 doesn't sound too bad? It's enough that I'm not taking them.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/28 07:40:46
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 08:20:47
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf
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Yeah, a 1 in 4 chance of completely destroying yourself with no outside help by turn 4 isn't my idea of a good unit  Expand that to 6 turns and it has a 46% chance of killing itself entirely with no outside help, so close to half of battles if you spend 6 turns firing it will kill itself.
Now, I will admit it's fine in a unit with Pasky boy, and if I ever take an Executioner it will be in a Pask unit. But I still dislike the whole concept of "gets hot" on a vehicle let alone the idea of having a tank which is so prone to damaging itself. I find it equally stupid that something that increases your chance of hitting simultaneously reduces the chance of getting hot.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 08:29:50
Subject: Re:I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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Chance of glancing yourself with 'gets hot' with 1 shot without a reroll - 8.33%
Chance of glancing yourself with 'gets hot' with 1 shot with reroll - 1.39%
Get a reroll or don't bother with executioner or you'll glance yourself to death loosing more than gaining. Don't forget, those 'gets hot' prevent you from shooting also.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/28 08:30:21
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 08:41:21
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Utilizing Careful Highlighting
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Do preferred enemy and twin link actually help in the case of the executioner though? AFAIK plasma blast weapons just roll a separate die each time they're fired that takes a hp on a 1, completely separate from the to-hit roll. Was that FAQ'd to include all rolls involved?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 08:46:04
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf
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Badablack wrote:Do preferred enemy and twin link actually help in the case of the executioner though? AFAIK plasma blast weapons just roll a separate die each time they're fired that takes a hp on a 1, completely separate from the to-hit roll. Was that FAQ'd to include all rolls involved?
The very last paragraph of the "gets hot" rule states that even weapons that don't roll to hit get to reroll the "gets hot" roll if they have some ability that would normally let them reroll to hit. I don't remember the exact wording, but check it out.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 08:46:50
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Douglas Bader
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Badablack wrote:Do preferred enemy and twin link actually help in the case of the executioner though? AFAIK plasma blast weapons just roll a separate die each time they're fired that takes a hp on a 1, completely separate from the to-hit roll. Was that FAQ'd to include all rolls involved?
Look at the rules for gets hot and re-rolls: if you have a re-roll to hit (for example, with a twin-linked weapon) you can re-roll the special die for gets hot weapons that do not roll to hit.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 09:55:07
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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The LR executioner is absurdly likely to kill itself for such a supposedly valuable tank. And man I wish my LREs had S8.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 10:24:02
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc
The darkness between the stars
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Kain wrote:The LR executioner is absurdly likely to kill itself for such a supposedly valuable tank. And man I wish my LREs had S8.
Pretty much this. It's more from a fluffy standpoint that I have a problem with it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 10:47:19
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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StarTrotter wrote: Kain wrote:The LR executioner is absurdly likely to kill itself for such a supposedly valuable tank. And man I wish my LREs had S8.
Pretty much this. It's more from a fluffy standpoint that I have a problem with it.
How any of them survive to be relics when they can reliably melt down themselves over the course of a single short engagement is beyond me.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 11:08:13
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc
The darkness between the stars
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Kain wrote: StarTrotter wrote: Kain wrote:The LR executioner is absurdly likely to kill itself for such a supposedly valuable tank. And man I wish my LREs had S8.
Pretty much this. It's more from a fluffy standpoint that I have a problem with it.
How any of them survive to be relics when they can reliably melt down themselves over the course of a single short engagement is beyond me.
What's more entertaining is that it can theoretically kill itself in a single turn! Imagine that sight!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 11:50:46
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Fireknife Shas'el
Lisbon, Portugal
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StarTrotter wrote: Vector Strike wrote:SM still has a 3-shot plasma cannon without Gets Hot: Relic Deimos Predator, IA2A2. No luck for Guard, though.
That's more due to it being an old IA. Or at least I assume that was before 6th edition came out correct or came out near the same time?
IA2A2 is from 2014. Plasma Destroyer (the cannon's name) doesn't sport any 'Gets Hot!' rule. But you can have only 1 in your army, unless you bring a special characer that lets you pick more (in the end of the book, explaining Relic of the Armoury ( pg. 243)
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AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / Fallout Factions: BoS / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion: CIS / WWX: Union
Unit1126PLL wrote:"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"
Shadenuat wrote:Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 11:57:15
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc
The darkness between the stars
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Vector Strike wrote: StarTrotter wrote: Vector Strike wrote:SM still has a 3-shot plasma cannon without Gets Hot: Relic Deimos Predator, IA2A2. No luck for Guard, though.
That's more due to it being an old IA. Or at least I assume that was before 6th edition came out correct or came out near the same time?
IA2A2 is from 2014. Plasma Destroyer (the cannon's name) doesn't sport any 'Gets Hot!' rule. But you can have only 1 in your army, unless you bring a special characer that lets you pick more (in the end of the book, explaining Relic of the Armoury ( pg. 243)
Huh, alright then. As per the Executioner, it certainly makes the cooler system very questionable
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 12:39:10
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren
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Well since no AM player is going to leave house without a primaris psyker now, I do think the tank is balanced with him bringing it just around its original points cost, but far more accurate than its 5th edition counterpart.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 12:51:25
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc
The darkness between the stars
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Sir Arun wrote:Well since no AM player is going to leave house without a primaris psyker now, I do think the tank is balanced with him bringing it just around its original points cost, but far more accurate than its 5th edition counterpart.
Implying that everybody wants to bring the primaris psyker. What are you mad? This is the Imperium! We don't want those fething witches in our midsts. We burn heretics not treat them. Imagine how the Engineseer would react if he found out! Isn't the only way for the psyker to cast his spell is if it is outside of a chimera?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 13:49:40
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf
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Sir Arun wrote:Well since no AM player is going to leave house without a primaris psyker now, I do think the tank is balanced with him bringing it just around its original points cost, but far more accurate than its 5th edition counterpart.
I can't say I'm overly happy with the concept of a tank that can only safely fire its guns when there's a witch running around behind sprinkling magic space dust on it. If I take an Executioner, it will only ever be with Pask.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 14:03:14
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I suppose my thoughts on it are just that you have re-rolls and you have repair. And anyway, do you really think a tank with that much firepower is going to make it to turn 4? I know I will be devoting as many resources as I can to burning it down as fast as possible.
I'd play this thing in a second if I could get it. It's like what the plasma hammerhead from Taros wishes so desperately it could be.
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Like watching other people play video games (badly) while blathering about nothing in particular? Check out my Youtube channel: joemamaUSA!
BrianDavion wrote:Between the two of us... I think GW is assuming we the players are not complete idiots.
Rapidly on path to becoming the world's youngest bitter old man. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 15:01:49
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Utilizing Careful Highlighting
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I like to think of it more as the tank being such old finicky tech that you can't get it to last an entire battle without breaking down. Each hull point lost to gets hot rolls is just more nuts and bolts falling off the plasma reactor before it finally just breaks apart in a heap.
On a related note enginseers and techmarines should be able to recover hull points lost through gets hot rolls.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/28 20:24:18
Subject: I like the new Executioner Plasma Cannon
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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren
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AllSeeingSkink wrote: Sir Arun wrote:Well since no AM player is going to leave house without a primaris psyker now, I do think the tank is balanced with him bringing it just around its original points cost, but far more accurate than its 5th edition counterpart.
I can't say I'm overly happy with the concept of a tank that can only safely fire its guns when there's a witch running around behind sprinkling magic space dust on it. If I take an Executioner, it will only ever be with Pask.
Well if that's how you roll, then keep it traditional with an Enginseer behind it recovering its hullpoints and also making it more survivable since you can basically recover half a HP every turn (you lose around half a HP by firing all 5 plasma blasts of a Executioner) and unlike a primaris, wont get perils and fail.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/28 20:25:33
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