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Now, this has probably been done before, but my seach bar is not working, so.....

Any fellow Space Wolves players out their that want to share their hopes and dreams for the new codex, mainly balancing things though.

One thing I want is WG being able to join skyclaws and biker squads.

 goblinking201 wrote:
Now, this has probably been done before, but my seach bar is not working, so.....

Any fellow Space Wolves players out their that want to share their hopes and dreams for the new codex, mainly balancing things though.

One thing I want is WG being able to join skyclaws and biker squads.

Gimme the russ back please, thats something we used to have.
I would like it back and maybe a wulfen model too

Nerf JotWW
Nerf antipsibubbles
Give me a reason to take bloodclaws/skyclaws/swiftclaws without nerfing GH to the ground.

Leave the rest as it is with the addition of some form of effective AA.
Please dont give us a MC with a wolf theme ... please not.

Nerf grey hunters, make all the stuff I never see from them better. Get rid of JotWW and their psyker bubbles.

There's already a massive SW wishlist thread on page 3:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/573473.page

There's never enough opportunities to call for the nerfing of grey hunters.

Surprised you have 2 posts in this thread already without mentioning how much BA suck

Martel732 wrote:
There's never enough opportunities to call for the nerfing of grey hunters.

Move wolfscouts to the troops slot and you can do with GH whatever you want. Unfortunately that would be very unfluffly :(

 Mywik wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
There's never enough opportunities to call for the nerfing of grey hunters.

Move wolfscouts to the troops slot and you can do with GH whatever you want. Unfortunately that would be very unfluffly :(

Don't care about fluff. I care about grey hunters being invincible in HTH. Which, for their points and role, pretty much are.

Martel732 wrote:

 Mywik wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
There's never enough opportunities to call for the nerfing of grey hunters.

Move wolfscouts to the troops slot and you can do with GH whatever you want. Unfortunately that would be very unfluffly :(

Don't care about fluff. I care about grey hunters being invincible in HTH. Which, for their points and role, pretty much are.

We'll see what happens to them. Since you seem to be looking for someone that disagrees with you in order to start an argument thats all i will say .

Nope. I'd much rather that all SW players admit that Grey Hunters are utter BS compared to other troops in the game and then all the arguments would stop. At least about Grey Hunters.

Martel732 wrote:
Nope. I'd much rather that all SW players admit that Grey Hunters are utter BS compared to other troops in the game and then all the arguments would stop. At least about Grey Hunters.

Jeah, whatever.



What im much more interested in is what people think a new space wolves battleforce could contain. Seeing that every other army got some really nice new boxes.

I think the contents of the old box was alright for the price. If they continue the pattern of bigger battleboxes they could add some thunderwolves and fenrisian wolves. Would be nice, I never got me to buy the new fenrisian wolves because of the price although the models are awesome. Would be nice to have them as the "free" part in the battleforce. I am eagerly wating for the space wolves release. Dont want to buy the old battlebox now although i could use some additional PA models and the drop pod.

 Njal Stormpuppy wrote:

 goblinking201 wrote:
Now, this has probably been done before, but my seach bar is not working, so.....

Any fellow Space Wolves players out their that want to share their hopes and dreams for the new codex, mainly balancing things though.

One thing I want is WG being able to join skyclaws and biker squads.

Gimme the russ back please, thats something we used to have.
I would like it back and maybe a wulfen model too

Yeah, I would kill for a Wulfun model

 goblinking201 wrote:

 Njal Stormpuppy wrote:

 goblinking201 wrote:
Now, this has probably been done before, but my seach bar is not working, so.....

Any fellow Space Wolves players out their that want to share their hopes and dreams for the new codex, mainly balancing things though.

One thing I want is WG being able to join skyclaws and biker squads.

Gimme the russ back please, thats something we used to have.
I would like it back and maybe a wulfen model too

Yeah, I would kill for a Wulfun model

I use these as motw


http://www.gaspez-arts.com/sci-fi.html

Martel732 wrote:
There's never enough opportunities to call for the nerfing of grey hunters.

Wow, I really have been expecting you to pop into this thread but you have been way faster than expected. But I will not discuss GHs with you anymore and I advise everyone else not to do it also.

We probably don't get the SM fliers, if we would get them it would have happened in the original White Dwarf or in Death from the Skies. It's more likely we get one of our own, probably a transport (My money is on Storm Wolf).
Stalker/Hunter are unlikely too.
I really don't know what other kits they could releases. Everything in the current dex has relative new platic models already. Maybe Wulfen or something completly new. I can't imagine standard Centuions and certainly no gravguns, but some kind of AA Centurions could be possible if we don't get the Stalker/Hunter.

All kinds of Claws hopefully get cheaper.

Points cost will be homogenised with Marines.

Psychic powers will go away, maybe Njal will keep Stormcaller. Runic weapons prolly change to a combined Force Weapon/Psychic Hood.

Hopefully no giant wolf/werewolf MC or anything with 4 legs.

They could do something with Dreadnoughts as Space Wolves as own way more than other chapters.

Basic GHs should stay, just adjust special weapon costs and some nerf to the banner. Maybe make it some kind of relic: each HQ can buy one and give it to a GH squad. If they change the basic loadout again (like in 3rd where a GH could have either pistol/ccw, bolter/ccw or pistol/bolter/ccw) I will go crazy.

LFs are fine once the pay the same as vanillas for their weapons.

Ragnar69 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
There's never enough opportunities to call for the nerfing of grey hunters.

Wow, I really have been expecting you to pop into this thread but you have been way faster than expected. But I will not discuss GHs with you anymore and I advise everyone else not to do it also.

We probably don't get the SM fliers, if we would get them it would have happened in the original White Dwarf or in Death from the Skies. It's more likely we get one of our own, probably a transport (My money is on Storm Wolf).
Stalker/Hunter are unlikely too.
I really don't know what other kits they could releases. Everything in the current dex has relative new platic models already. Maybe Wulfen or something completly new. I can't imagine standard Centuions and certainly no gravguns, but some kind of AA Centurions could be possible if we don't get the Stalker/Hunter.

All kinds of Claws hopefully get cheaper.

Points cost will be homogenised with Marines.

Psychic powers will go away, maybe Njal will keep Stormcaller. Runic weapons prolly change to a combined Force Weapon/Psychic Hood.

Hopefully no giant wolf/werewolf MC or anything with 4 legs.

They could do something with Dreadnoughts as Space Wolves as own way more than other chapters.

Basic GHs should stay, just adjust special weapon costs and some nerf to the banner. Maybe make it some kind of relic: each HQ can buy one and give it to a GH squad. If they change the basic loadout again (like in 3rd where a GH could have either pistol/ccw, bolter/ccw or pistol/bolter/ccw) I will go crazy.

LFs are fine once the pay the same as vanillas for their weapons.

Bong I got it. A unit called a skywatcher, this is essentially a dreadnaught that deepstrikes onto the field and doesn't move. He is an aaa battery from hell with two hull points and the armor stats of a dread. He has limitless range on his flakk guns but requires total los to shoot at a flyer (so no buildings in his way). He can also pop smoke in an aoe bubble around himself to shield brothers defending him and make him harder to neutralize with gunfire. He can both shoot and smoke pop in the same turn as he doesn't move.

Imagine being in a fighter seeing this thing if you will. From out of nowhere a lightning bolt strikes the ground and a large metal box appears. It shrouds itself in thick gray smoke, suddenly your under a barrage of white flakk gun tracers and your wingman is ripped a part from this stationary cloud of doom. AND YOUR NEXT!

I want something more than "nerf x, nerf y, give us an anti-air thing".

Martel732 wrote:

 Mywik wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
There's never enough opportunities to call for the nerfing of grey hunters.

Move wolfscouts to the troops slot and you can do with GH whatever you want. Unfortunately that would be very unfluffly :(

Don't care about fluff. I care about grey hunters being invincible in HTH. Which, for their points and role, pretty much are.

Wait, why do you care? They'll just be shot up before things get into HTH and so it doesn't matter.

You know, just like the ATSKNF you constantly tout as being useless but you don't want to see nerfed.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Mywik wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
There's never enough opportunities to call for the nerfing of grey hunters.

Move wolfscouts to the troops slot and you can do with GH whatever you want. Unfortunately that would be very unfluffly :(

Don't care about fluff. I care about grey hunters being invincible in HTH. Which, for their points and role, pretty much are.

Wait, why do you care? They'll just be shot up before things get into HTH and so it doesn't matter.

You know, just like the ATSKNF you constantly tout as being useless but you don't want to see nerfed.

Actually, I don't care if ATSKNF is removed from the game. It won't change outcomes. I'd gladly trade ATSKNF for offensive efficacy.

And only very specific meq lists have the firepower to keep the SW from taking their lunch money. The rest are just victims. And BA are not one of those lists, nor are the IH I play, because I don't own centurions.

Martel732 wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Mywik wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
There's never enough opportunities to call for the nerfing of grey hunters.

Move wolfscouts to the troops slot and you can do with GH whatever you want. Unfortunately that would be very unfluffly :(

Don't care about fluff. I care about grey hunters being invincible in HTH. Which, for their points and role, pretty much are.

Wait, why do you care? They'll just be shot up before things get into HTH and so it doesn't matter.

You know, just like the ATSKNF you constantly tout as being useless but you don't want to see nerfed.

Actually, I don't care if ATSKNF is removed from the game. It won't change outcomes. And only very specific meq lists have the firepower to keep the SW from taking their lunch money. The rest are just victims. And BA are not one of those lists, nor are the IH I play, because I don't own centurions.

GH has the same shooting as CSM, aside from the free/cheap special which will be nerfed when they get updated, it doesn't matter about as you've mentioned the HTH and assault is useless and so it doesn't matter if they are good, their shooting is all that matters isn't it.

Against lists that have no resources allocated to HTH, that's true. But marines are forced to buy into assault to some extent. GH aren't unfair to Tau or Eldar, but they're the original slap in the face to lists like Marines, Orks or Tyranids. Tau and Eldar just made the situation with lists that are at least partially assault oriented even worse.

Martel732 wrote:
Against lists that have no resources allocated to HTH, that's true. But marines are forced to buy into assault to some extent.

No they aren't, top SM lists are based around gravstars.

Lists aren't based around buying into assault, it's based on how to deal with deathstars (deathtrap in HTH for all MEQ), Wave Serpent spam (Not even getting close to HTH, not even with the jetbikes), Riptides (Also not getting into HTH).

MEQ lists for CSM are based around cultists and other things, or are just secondary to demon lists.

SW isn't even a top used army anymore because of how pathetic it is at dealing with current meta.

So once again, why does their 'invincible' HTH skills matter.

GH aren't unfair to Tau or Eldar, they're the original slap in the face to lists like Orks or Tyranids.

Tyranids don't use many gribblies, they just use FMC spam, which deals with SW easily.

Orks, like BA just badly need an update.

And neither of those armies define the meta.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Against lists that have no resources allocated to HTH, that's true. But marines are forced to buy into assault to some extent.

No they aren't, top SM lists are based around gravstars.

Lists aren't based around buying into assault, it's based on how to deal with deathstars (deathtrap in HTH for all MEQ), Wave Serpent spam (Not even getting close to HTH, not even with the jetbikes), Riptides (Also not getting into HTH).

MEQ lists for CSM are based around cultists and other things, or are just secondary to demon lists.

SW isn't even a top used army anymore because of how pathetic it is at dealing with current meta.

So once again, why does their 'invincible' HTH skills matter.

For the same reason that Eldar and Tau are not fun for many lists: they invalidate huge sections of possible list choices. And, yes, SW are miserable in the current meta because no one bothers with assault unless they have a 2++ rerollable. This limits the impact of the Grey Hunter a great deal, but they are still absurd compared to a tactical marine. This doesn't matter that much in play with top lists, but it is still something that should be addressed I think.

 ionusx wrote:


Bong I got it. A unit called a skywatcher, this is essentially a dreadnaught that deepstrikes onto the field and doesn't move. He is an aaa battery from hell with two hull points and the armor stats of a dread. He has limitless range on his flakk guns but requires total los to shoot at a flyer (so no buildings in his way). He can also pop smoke in an aoe bubble around himself to shield brothers defending him and make him harder to neutralize with gunfire. He can both shoot and smoke pop in the same turn as he doesn't move.

Imagine being in a fighter seeing this thing if you will. From out of nowhere a lightning bolt strikes the ground and a large metal box appears. It shrouds itself in thick gray smoke, suddenly your under a barrage of white flakk gun tracers and your wingman is ripped a part from this stationary cloud of doom. AND YOUR NEXT!

But that wouldnt be very space wolves specific wouldnt it? More like an idea for a new fortification

 Wilytank wrote:
I want something more than "nerf x, nerf y, give us an anti-air thing".

What about trying to add something more to the topic then? Because in the end thats exactly what i expect. A warlord table and a relics list tacked on and they'll be done with it. Space wolves are fine how they are right now so why change much about them besides the clunky mechanic leftovers like JotWW and the Runic weapons? Its not like space wolves are a top tier army or anything (C:SM is right now at least with 1 build).

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Against lists that have no resources allocated to HTH, that's true. But marines are forced to buy into assault to some extent.

No they aren't, top SM lists are based around gravstars.

Lists aren't based around buying into assault, it's based on how to deal with deathstars (deathtrap in HTH for all MEQ), Wave Serpent spam (Not even getting close to HTH, not even with the jetbikes), Riptides (Also not getting into HTH).

MEQ lists for CSM are based around cultists and other things, or are just secondary to demon lists.

SW isn't even a top used army anymore because of how pathetic it is at dealing with current meta.

So once again, why does their 'invincible' HTH skills matter.

GH aren't unfair to Tau or Eldar, they're the original slap in the face to lists like Orks or Tyranids.

Tyranids don't use many gribblies, they just use FMC spam, which deals with SW easily.

Orks, like BA just badly need an update.

And neither of those armies define the meta.

I forget the poster and the thread, but someone was pointing out how other lists CC specialists should able to decimate tactical marines in HTH, which is fair enough, I suppose, but then the topic of GH came up. GH beat many, many CC specialists from other lists which is just WRONG. The fact that the meta has invalidated this section of the game doesn't change the fact that GH can do things that no other troops can do. Because Wolves, I guess.

Martel, you seem to be missing something:
Grey Hunters ARE a dedicated Close Combat unit, with offhand shooting capabilities. They are not Tactical Marines.

Tactical Marines are flexible scoring units with offhand shooting capabilities. Unlike Grey Hunters, you get twice as many Tactical squads if you need them, via combat squads. With a wide array of Chapter Tactics, they can have a specialist ability in most any field.

Grey Hunters are supposed to be better in Close Combat, because that is their speciality. They can't offer long-range support as well, they can't spread across the board as well, and depending on Chapter Tactics taken they are either slightly less durable, or slightly less powerful at range than Tactical Marines. Yes, Grey Hunters have a higher damage output within a short range space. That is their job.

With 5/6ths of available mission types being objective-based, though, sometimes that flexibility of motion and range is more important.

Do I believe that Tactical Marines are better than Grey Hunters? No. Do I believe that they are superior to Grey Hunters in a few important aspects, counterbalanced by a lowered damage output? Definitely.

Want and Expectations are two separate things.

What I expect:
Replace Counter Attack with Crusader
Space Wolf Specific Warlord traits
1] Gives Adamantine Will Army Wide
2] 12” Counter Attack
3] 1d3 Outflankers
4] Makes Fenrisian Wolves Scoring
5] 12” Re-Roll Leadership Test
6] 12” Fearless Bubble

>HQs
Logan: Points Adjustment, Frost Axe striking at Imitative gain Smash, Choose Warlord Trait, Gain a Wound
Ragnar: His Blade becoming Rending
Ulric: Gain Oath of War
Njal: 24” Adamantine Will
Canis: Gain Rending
Björn: Add 1 Hull Points, 4++ Save
Wolf Lord: Belt of Russ Standard
Rune Priest: 12” Adamantine Will
Wolf Priest: FNP 5+
Wolf Guard Battle Leader: ???
Wolf Priest: One per HQ, no FOC Slot
Wolf Guard: 1 Per HQ

>Elite
Lone Wolves: Removed or made 1-3
Dreadnaughts: AAA Upgrade

>Troops
Grey Hunters: Special Weapons Points Change
Blood Claws: Points Adjustment, Special Weapons Points Change

>Fast Attack:
Fenrisian Wolves: Points Adjustment
Land Speeders: Points Adjustments
Skyclaws: Points Adjustment, Special Weapons Point Change
Swiftclaws: Points Adjustment, Special Weapons Point Change
Thunderwolf Cavalry: Points Adjustment, Special Wargear Adjustment
New Air Superiority Flyer

>Heavy Support:
Long Fangs: Points Adjustments
Predator Tanks: Points Adjustment, maybe a Space Wolf only Variant
Vindicator: Points Adjustment
Whirlwind: Points Adjustment
New Ground Support Flyer

>Wargear:
Wolf Tail Talisman: Iron Will
Frost Blades/Frost Axes/Wolf Claws: Points Adjustment

>Special Artifacts
Wolf Banner: Affects all within 12” or Adamantine Will or give Counter Attack
Mastercraft Rending Frost Blade
Mastercraft Rending Bolt Pistol
Runic Armor granting FNP, Immune Instant Death

Psychic Powers: All of them go to 1 Warp Charge, JotWW costing 2. Some Re-Writes

This might not be what I want, but what Expect.

 Anpu42 wrote:
Want and Expectations are two separate things.

>Elite
Lone Wolves: Removed or made 1-3

Why do you expect them to get rid of Lone Wolves, they are one of our most fluffiest units and are pretty cool on the field.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, what is with everyone wanting a flier all of a sudden. I can agree with the AA, but a flyer! Russ would be so ashamed. Wolves fight with two feet firmly on the ground.

 goblinking201 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
Want and Expectations are two separate things.

>Elite
Lone Wolves: Removed or made 1-3

Why do you expect them to get rid of Lone Wolves, they are one of our most fluffiest units and are pretty cool on the field.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, what is with everyone wanting a flier all of a sudden. I can agree with the AA, but a flyer! Russ would be so ashamed. Wolves fight with two feet firmly on the ground.

Lone Wolves: They are my Facorite Unit, so I expect them to go away.

Flyers: I am not sure if I want Flyers or not, but Everyone is getting them so I expect them.

There is a lot of axe grinding in this thread.

Anyway, I look forward to backing away from sentences like "Wolf {noun} that verbs {wolfishly}."

The wolves are a characterful army, and the more HH books I see them in, even briefly, the more I warm up to them.