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Hey guys, I'm just starting airbrushing and I was wondering how I could make some cheap thinner to use with my airbrush paints. I'm using Vallejo game color paints if that matters.

I've seen a couple things online that say use windex as it's really cheap and thins it well. Though I've also seen just as much saying not to use it as it has ammonia in it, and to use the clear automotive ones that doesn't have ammonia or pigments.

I've also seen some youtube vids where they used water, glazes, and liquid glycerin? also windex with liquid glycerin? but I have no clue where to get the stuff as I thought that was the dangerous stuff in dynamite lol.

anyway some tips and tricks would be awesome thanks!!!

MitchellTyner wrote:
Hey guys, I'm just starting airbrushing and I was wondering how I could make some cheap thinner to use with my airbrush paints. I'm using Vallejo game color paints if that matters.

I've seen a couple things online that say use windex as it's really cheap and thins it well. Though I've also seen just as much saying not to use it as it has ammonia in it, and to use the clear automotive ones that doesn't have ammonia or pigments.

I've also seen some youtube vids where they used water, glazes, and liquid glycerin? also windex with liquid glycerin? but I have no clue where to get the stuff as I thought that was the dangerous stuff in dynamite lol.

anyway some tips and tricks would be awesome thanks!!!

People who say Windex through an airbrush is bad, is just people blowing smoke out thier a$$, and I really get sick of half truths and bad techniques being perpetuated. /rant off

Might I direct you to this article;

http://arcanepaintworks.blogspot.com/2013/08/airbrushing-windex.html

That being said, other than cleaning I do not like Windex for thinning Vallejo paints, it is personal preference. Personally I use water for probably 80% of the airbrushing I do. That other 20% is on certain colors or when I am trying to achieve certain effects. For these effects I will use a 50/50 mix of Liquitex Matte Medium Thinned with Distilled Water. You can buy a bottle of it at Micheal's get your self a 50% off coupon and it will cost you about $4 to $6. I bought my tub about a year ago, it is 2/3's full and I am airbrushing every day.

A.

So the matte medium / water will thin out the paints?

the matte medium is a milky white correct? will this have any effect on the color of the finished paint?

MitchellTyner wrote:
So the matte medium / water will thin out the paints?

the matte medium is a milky white correct? will this have any effect on the color of the finished paint?

Yes it does, that is why I use water for most of my thinning.

A.

 Redfinger wrote:

MitchellTyner wrote:
So the matte medium / water will thin out the paints?

the matte medium is a milky white correct? will this have any effect on the color of the finished paint?

Yes it does, that is why I use water for most of my thinning.

A.

so with using water, what do you use a 50/50 of water to paint? I don't mind using water but I've heard problems with using water as the pigments separate fast or whatnot. Though I've never tried it I was just wondering. That would be the ultimate cheapness just to put water in it and I have a distilled water maker at work so I can make all the distilled water I need so that isn't a problem.

 Redfinger wrote:


People who say Windex through an airbrush is bad, is just people blowing smoke out thier a$$, and I really get sick of half truths and bad techniques being perpetuated. /rant off

Might I direct you to this article;

http://arcanepaintworks.blogspot.com/2013/08/airbrushing-windex.html

That being said, other than cleaning I do not like Windex for thinning Vallejo paints, it is personal preference. Personally I use water for probably 80% of the airbrushing I do. That other 20% is on certain colors or when I am trying to achieve certain effects. For these effects I will use a 50/50 mix of Liquitex Matte Medium Thinned with Distilled Water. You can buy a bottle of it at Micheal's get your self a 50% off coupon and it will cost you about $4 to $6. I bought my tub about a year ago, it is 2/3's full and I am airbrushing every day.

A.

The windex thing comes down to safety mate. I know that we all *should* wear a respirator with appropriate filters in while spraying.
But frankly the amount of *what should I buy* airbrushing threads that have no mention of a good mask is striking.
So I have a hard time advocating using windex for thinning as it is only going to compound on breathing paint particles for most people airbrushing. (to think that everyone definately wears their mask is just naive).

Speaking form experience, just water will destroy adhesion and paint film surface tension when used in appropriate amounts to make average acrylics spray well.
You need to add binder into the mix. (which is where the medium you mentioned comes in)
Using windex will flatten sheen and slightly affect hue of paint for those arty folk who actually care about the colours going down. I've tried it,.. if your going to use it, get a respirator (you already should but I know most of you didnt buy one)

Liquitex actually make a 'Airbrushing medium' which works really well, its jut a low viscosity 100% acrylic binder.
Similarly vallejo airbrush thinner is another low viscosity 100% acrylic binder.
Using something like this will thin the paints, and actively improve adhesion and film strength.

Its actually simple chemistry of polymer chains; the paint requires a certain % of polymer in the mix to form adequately long chains of molecules. Not having enough makes for flakey, blotchey paint jobs that will not stand the test of time compared to using a binder in your mix.
Airbrush ready paints are made with these lower viscosity mediums to begin with, I promise you they arent just a matter of buying watered down paints (or just watering down your own)
I've been airbrushing for years now in a lot more fields than toy soldiers and I'm yet to find a brand of acrylic paint that will not spray through a 0.2mm airbrush when correctly prepared.

Doesn't matte medium dry clear though?

I mostly use a few drops of water and few drops of either Vallejo or Humbrol thinner to thin my paints while airbrushing. I could be wrong, but I think vallejo thinner has a bit of alcohol in it, it causes the paint to dry slightly faster, but also has a cleaning effect. I find it is less likely to clog the airbrush (which I assume is because the alcohol is somewhat cleaning the nozzle as you spray?) but also dries a bit faster on the model which can be good or bad depending on what you're trying to do.

The Humbrol thinner has some sort of retarder in it, so it actually dries much slower. If you thin ONLY with Humbrol thinner, it could take a couple of hours for the paint to dry, so I typically only use a drop of it with several drops of water. Again, I like it because it seems less likely to clog the airbrush than pure water, and slowing down the drying can help when you are just trying to do light coats to tint an area (maybe for the purpose of gentle fading), it basically just widens the window of correct viscosity when doing that sort of work. It's not quite so well suited to putting down an opaque layer of paint, as the slow drying means you're more likely to get pooling.

I find the paint going on a tiny bit smoother with Humbrol thinner, but the slower drying time can be annoying. It actually depends on the paint I'm using which one I prefer, I don't know why, but I find Reaper paints go on better with water + drop of Humbrol than they do with Vallejo thinner.

I'd love to know how Gunze formulate their paints, as I love airbrushing those. They are a little bit more transparent than other paints and typically require more coats, but they go on so much smoother than other paints. That's not to say you can't paint other paints smooth... it's just the Gunze ones are like spraying in easy mode, you can bugger up the consistency and lay it on too thick or whatever but still get an amazingly smooth coat.

Yeah the medium is clear, and will boost transparency in paints.
But most airbrush paints are actual semi transparent. You can shade without changing paint by layering it.
Theres actually very little use for opaque paints in airbrushing besides base colours. (which arent necessary as you can easily lay down even coats of transparent colours for an even coat - you might use opaque white with transparent black to preshade.. or the reverse, opaque black with transparent white perhaps, then transparent colours over the top)

So what you guys are saying is that my best bet is to get the matte medium and thin it with water and go from there?

Many people get on fine with water, a proper thinner is probably best practice.

One is essentially free, one is not, so on that basis, it is your call.

HairySticks wrote:

Not having enough makes for flakey, blotchey paint jobs that will not stand the test of time compared to using a binder in your mix.

Sorry, I really disagree with statement. On the scale that these applications are happening, I feel the degradation is minimal.

Not seeing a lot of flakey or blotchy paint here;





And lets do one more for good measure;



All p3, Vallejo or Tamyia paints thinned with water, plan'ol water.

I think the real problem here is as the op stated in the 5th post from the top, "Though I've never tried it..."

A.

lol honestly I think the real problem is that I'm new to airbrushing in general... but we all have to start somewhere. I can tell from your models that you know what you are talking about though

I think if you're just starting, a couple of Vallejo Model Air paints and some Vallejo thinner make for a nice easy start. If you can't afford the new paints, just stick to what you have and get the Vallejo thinner.

That's my personal opinion. There are so many things you can do with airbrushing I'm sure you could get good results with anything anyone suggests if you do it right. But for the sake of someone just starting out, I think the Vallejo airbrush thinner is a good place to start, as IMO it's easier to manage than thinning with water.

I've only been spray painting since the start of this year, but at least that's how I feel. I'm all about making things easier on myself IMO there's a window for correct viscosity when spraying depending on what you're doing and also what airbrush you're using, using a good thinner just widens that window a bit, making it easier for the newbie to get their feet.

HairySticks wrote:

 Redfinger wrote:


People who say Windex through an airbrush is bad, is just people blowing smoke out thier a$$, and I really get sick of half truths and bad techniques being perpetuated. /rant off

Might I direct you to this article;

http://arcanepaintworks.blogspot.com/2013/08/airbrushing-windex.html

That being said, other than cleaning I do not like Windex for thinning Vallejo paints, it is personal preference. Personally I use water for probably 80% of the airbrushing I do. That other 20% is on certain colors or when I am trying to achieve certain effects. For these effects I will use a 50/50 mix of Liquitex Matte Medium Thinned with Distilled Water. You can buy a bottle of it at Micheal's get your self a 50% off coupon and it will cost you about $4 to $6. I bought my tub about a year ago, it is 2/3's full and I am airbrushing every day.

A.

The windex thing comes down to safety mate. I know that we all *should* wear a respirator with appropriate filters in while spraying.
But frankly the amount of *what should I buy* airbrushing threads that have no mention of a good mask is striking.
So I have a hard time advocating using windex for thinning as it is only going to compound on breathing paint particles for most people airbrushing. (to think that everyone definately wears their mask is just naive).

Speaking form experience, just water will destroy adhesion and paint film surface tension when used in appropriate amounts to make average acrylics spray well.
You need to add binder into the mix. (which is where the medium you mentioned comes in)
Using windex will flatten sheen and slightly affect hue of paint for those arty folk who actually care about the colours going down. I've tried it,.. if your going to use it, get a respirator (you already should but I know most of you didnt buy one)

Liquitex actually make a 'Airbrushing medium' which works really well, its jut a low viscosity 100% acrylic binder.
Similarly vallejo airbrush thinner is another low viscosity 100% acrylic binder.
Using something like this will thin the paints, and actively improve adhesion and film strength.

Its actually simple chemistry of polymer chains; the paint requires a certain % of polymer in the mix to form adequately long chains of molecules. Not having enough makes for flakey, blotchey paint jobs that will not stand the test of time compared to using a binder in your mix.
Airbrush ready paints are made with these lower viscosity mediums to begin with, I promise you they arent just a matter of buying watered down paints (or just watering down your own)
I've been airbrushing for years now in a lot more fields than toy soldiers and I'm yet to find a brand of acrylic paint that will not spray through a 0.2mm airbrush when correctly prepared.

I could not agree more. How many times I have read threads where safety is skipped. Vallejo uses Acrylic-polyurethane. You don't want this stuff in your lungs. Or any other paint / chemicals in your lungs. Windex being sprayed through an Airbrush is DEBATEABLE. Not all airbrushes are built the same nor are coated the same. Windex will eat away the Rubber O-rings and chrome overtime of long exposure. I really don't understand why use it as a thinner when there are other alternatives to spray that are fairly cheap. You can use your airbrush cleaner as a thinner or as HairySticks said a medium helps a ton. I would recommend Liquitex Matte Medium. This also contains a drying retarder that helps with clogging in the needle, adds a smooth coat and great for blending.

game color is mostly sht IMO. you might have issues just from your paint.

the worst thing you can thin with is anything with drying retarder in it since the paint wont stick and dry, it will hit, stay wet and possibly blow everywhere.
water also sucks. too much water and you will have the same problems as drying retarder. to use water you will need to spray at a higher PSI to have enough air in the mix to dry the paint .
windex ammonia is also the least of your worries. game color contains cadmium.
my favorite is anything with lots of structure. I hate spraying watery paint.
mine is another vote for liquitex.

kb305 wrote:
game color is mostly sht IMO. you might have issues just from your paint.

the worst thing you can thin with is anything with drying retarder in it since the paint wont stick and dry, it will hit, stay wet and possibly blow everywhere.
water also sucks. too much water and you will have the same problems as drying retarder. to use water you will need to spray at a higher PSI to have enough air in the mix to dry the paint .
windex ammonia is also the least of your worries. game color contains cadmium.
my favorite is anything with lots of structure. I hate spraying watery paint.
mine is another vote for liquitex.

So worst thing I can use is something with a drying retarder in it... which Liquitex has. But you vote for Liquitex?

So I'm beginning to see I just need to figure it out myself since every single person here has a different opinion lol.

MitchellTyner wrote:

kb305 wrote:
game color is mostly sht IMO. you might have issues just from your paint.

the worst thing you can thin with is anything with drying retarder in it since the paint wont stick and dry, it will hit, stay wet and possibly blow everywhere.
water also sucks. too much water and you will have the same problems as drying retarder. to use water you will need to spray at a higher PSI to have enough air in the mix to dry the paint .
windex ammonia is also the least of your worries. game color contains cadmium.
my favorite is anything with lots of structure. I hate spraying watery paint.
mine is another vote for liquitex.

So worst thing I can use is something with a drying retarder in it... which Liquitex has. But you vote for Liquitex?

So I'm beginning to see I just need to figure it out myself since every single person here has a different opinion lol.

liquitex has all kinds of different products. go look at their website.

Always good to see lots of absolutes being thrown about when there isn't enough information to be absolute about.

Windex.

It will eat the chrome finish off the insides of the airbrush, this can impact paint/air flow. It can take time with thick finishes on name brands like Iwata - but less time on China-built brushes. It can also do quite a number if the airbrush is left to soak in it for an extended period of time for cleaning.

From Meg's correspondence:

The only time that it will do anything to the brush is if you seal the brush in a plastic bag with windex and leave it for about a week. Usually people don’t do that.

But they do. People let paint dry inside their airbrush because they don't properly clean it. They soak it in Windex and other cleaners - sometimes soaking extra long since the paint is really packed in there.

As a purge cleaner - it isn't a bad thing. Always rinse with something like alcohol or water though afterwards.

As a thinner - Windex isn't ideal. The blue dye will alter colors. The ammonia interacts with pigments (all those metal oxides), binders and solvents (Tamiya alcohol based paints + Windex = bubble gum). Windex is formulated to dry very fast - this is aggravated by airbrushing, which of course leads to additional problems like more frequent tip dry.

It also isn't sold as an airbrush medium. What this means is that what works today, or what works in the US may not work tomorrow or in Europe/Canada/Anywhere else. Companies reformulate products all the time. They do it to deal with supply shortages or to meet local environmental regulations. Since SC Johnson is only worried about the streak free shine, if they do something that causes the Windex to foul up for airbrushers...well, they don't care. If Liquitex changes their formula...they keep in mind the purpose to make sure it still performs as needed.

Also - if you routinely use Windex as a thinner, purge cleaner and for periodic full cleanings - it doesn't take long before you reach that week worth of contact with it. The effects of ammonia on the airbrush are cumulative. They add up one molecule at a time as it is stripped away from the chrome finish, the rubber seals and eventually the brass body (it effects brass even faster once the chrome is stripped). For someone who uses their airbrush only once a month or so - it could take years before they notice...they may never even get enough hours on it to see any change. However, if you use it a lot - you can see the plating strip away very quickly, have rubber seals degrade and start to see the green slime.

While it isn't something that will cause your airbrush to crumble into dust on day two or make your miniatures look like smurfs...the reality is that there is enough reason not to use Windex than to use Windex.

Over Thinning Paints

Can definitely lead to splotchy, chalky finishes. You can over thin with a solvent. You can not over thin with a medium. Just the reality of the chemistry.

Even at the small scales we are dealing with - if you are doing light translucent coats of paint for shading and highlighting (or just building up color through several layers) too much water, alcohol, windex or whatever can cause the paints to come out chalky looking. It can also cause them to be splotchy depending on the pigments (goes to ionic attractions between particles in suspension). Granted a lot of that does come down to how thin is thin. A lot of people (especially on miniature related boards) seem to be using rather thick paint. I assume this because of the pressures that they are spraying their paint at. I like thin paint at low pressures. My double action brushes never go above 15 PSI. To accomplish this though, my paints are thinner. For thick paints you need more pressure to get them to spray correctly

However, if you were to take a drop of paint and put it in a gallon of airbrush medium - it would not be chalky (it would be unnoticeable...but not chalky).

Mediums tend to be more forgiving when thinning for those just starting out because of this. After you get a handle on the basics - then you can start to play with thinning out for different effects and to different degrees.

Over thinned paints can also separate much faster. Water isn't very good at holding solids in suspension, and many of the pigments used for paints are rather heavy solids. You can actually watch it happen on you palette when brush painting. The same thing happens in your paint cup. If you use the color pretty quick - you may not notice any change, but if you use them over an extended period of time (30 minutes or more is where I have tended to notice it) the color strength tends to get weaker as a lot of the pigment settled out earlier in a painting session. I may notice this more than some people as I will tend to use two or three airbrushes at a time with different colors in each one. I put one down and use a brush. When I go back to the one that had been resting for a bit - you can look into the cup and see the settled pigment if thinned only with water.

Drying retarders

Almost all airbrush mediums contain them. It is put in in order to help prevent tip dry from occurring as frequently. When used in proper quantities, it will slow the drying of the paint - but not so much that it impacts the performance of the paint.

If you are having significant problems with it - than it is likely that you are using too much. If you are blowing paint around the surface of your model...your pressure is likely too high as well as the amount of paint you are laying down at a time.

Liquid Glycerin

Not Nitro Glycerin - the stuff they use to blow up safes in the movies...glycerin is a sugar alcohol. It is a cheaper alternative to drying retarders (though not much cheaper) so some people like it. You can normally get it at pharmacies (it is a laxative as well).

Another alternative is PEG (polyethylene glycol). PEG has a secondary advantage of not only being a drying retarder but also a flow improver. You can find PEG at pharmacies as well (also a laxative) but also at some hardware and wood working stores.

However, for a dollar or two more, you can get a bottle of Flow Aid and a bottle of drying retarder (or a bottle of airbrush medium) and not have to worry about tracking things down and the weird looks at the pharmacy for all the laxatives you are buying.

Matte Medium

Dries mostly clear. I say mostly...because it is mostly. The matting agent is normally a clear crystal of some form which when captured in the cured paint creates an irregular surface that cause light to scatter as opposed to a smooth surface that you get on gloss finishes. Even though the crystals are clear, they can (provided you apply it thick enough) cause a frosted look. Most matte mediums will alter the color while wet - but once dry, you should not see a significant change in color (provided you do not overload the paints).

Years ago - when I was broke...I would mix my own airbrush compounds using various constituent components like flow improver, drying retarder, acrylic mediums, matte mediums, alcohols and water. It works just fine, but you do need to practice to figure out what specific ratios you need for your local conditions (all sorts of factors come into play like relative humidity, altitude, temperature...). Now, I generally use the manufacturers thinner or Liquitex/Golden Airbrush Medium (I use both...like Golden better, but I can get Liquitex locally).

Starting out, I would recommend getting a bottle of the manufacturers thinner and using that to start with. Once you get a handle on the basics, if you want to change it up, research the aspects of the various additives to see what you need to get a different behavior/effect from what you get from the preformulated material.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
Always good to see lots of absolutes being thrown about when there isn't enough information to be absolute about.

Windex.

It will eat the chrome finish off the insides of the airbrush, this can impact paint/air flow. It can take time with thick finishes on name brands like Iwata - but less time on China-built brushes. It can also do quite a number if the airbrush is left to soak in it for an extended period of time for cleaning.

From Meg's correspondence:

The only time that it will do anything to the brush is if you seal the brush in a plastic bag with windex and leave it for about a week. Usually people don’t do that.

But they do. People let paint dry inside their airbrush because they don't properly clean it. They soak it in Windex and other cleaners - sometimes soaking extra long since the paint is really packed in there.

As a purge cleaner - it isn't a bad thing. Always rinse with something like alcohol or water though afterwards.

As a thinner - Windex isn't ideal. The blue dye will alter colors. The ammonia interacts with pigments (all those metal oxides), binders and solvents (Tamiya alcohol based paints + Windex = bubble gum). Windex is formulated to dry very fast - this is aggravated by airbrushing, which of course leads to additional problems like more frequent tip dry.

It also isn't sold as an airbrush medium. What this means is that what works today, or what works in the US may not work tomorrow or in Europe/Canada/Anywhere else. Companies reformulate products all the time. They do it to deal with supply shortages or to meet local environmental regulations. Since SC Johnson is only worried about the streak free shine, if they do something that causes the Windex to foul up for airbrushers...well, they don't care. If Liquitex changes their formula...they keep in mind the purpose to make sure it still performs as needed.

Also - if you routinely use Windex as a thinner, purge cleaner and for periodic full cleanings - it doesn't take long before you reach that week worth of contact with it. The effects of ammonia on the airbrush are cumulative. They add up one molecule at a time as it is stripped away from the chrome finish, the rubber seals and eventually the brass body (it effects brass even faster once the chrome is stripped). For someone who uses their airbrush only once a month or so - it could take years before they notice...they may never even get enough hours on it to see any change. However, if you use it a lot - you can see the plating strip away very quickly, have rubber seals degrade and start to see the green slime.

While it isn't something that will cause your airbrush to crumble into dust on day two or make your miniatures look like smurfs...the reality is that there is enough reason not to use Windex than to use Windex.

Over Thinning Paints

Can definitely lead to splotchy, chalky finishes. You can over thin with a solvent. You can not over thin with a medium. Just the reality of the chemistry.

Even at the small scales we are dealing with - if you are doing light translucent coats of paint for shading and highlighting (or just building up color through several layers) too much water, alcohol, windex or whatever can cause the paints to come out chalky looking. It can also cause them to be splotchy depending on the pigments (goes to ionic attractions between particles in suspension). Granted a lot of that does come down to how thin is thin. A lot of people (especially on miniature related boards) seem to be using rather thick paint. I assume this because of the pressures that they are spraying their paint at. I like thin paint at low pressures. My double action brushes never go above 15 PSI. To accomplish this though, my paints are thinner. For thick paints you need more pressure to get them to spray correctly

However, if you were to take a drop of paint and put it in a gallon of airbrush medium - it would not be chalky (it would be unnoticeable...but not chalky).

Mediums tend to be more forgiving when thinning for those just starting out because of this. After you get a handle on the basics - then you can start to play with thinning out for different effects and to different degrees.

Over thinned paints can also separate much faster. Water isn't very good at holding solids in suspension, and many of the pigments used for paints are rather heavy solids. You can actually watch it happen on you palette when brush painting. The same thing happens in your paint cup. If you use the color pretty quick - you may not notice any change, but if you use them over an extended period of time (30 minutes or more is where I have tended to notice it) the color strength tends to get weaker as a lot of the pigment settled out earlier in a painting session. I may notice this more than some people as I will tend to use two or three airbrushes at a time with different colors in each one. I put one down and use a brush. When I go back to the one that had been resting for a bit - you can look into the cup and see the settled pigment if thinned only with water.

Drying retarders

Almost all airbrush mediums contain them. It is put in in order to help prevent tip dry from occurring as frequently. When used in proper quantities, it will slow the drying of the paint - but not so much that it impacts the performance of the paint.

If you are having significant problems with it - than it is likely that you are using too much. If you are blowing paint around the surface of your model...your pressure is likely too high as well as the amount of paint you are laying down at a time.

Liquid Glycerin

Not Nitro Glycerin - the stuff they use to blow up safes in the movies...glycerin is a sugar alcohol. It is a cheaper alternative to drying retarders (though not much cheaper) so some people like it. You can normally get it at pharmacies (it is a laxative as well).

Another alternative is PEG (polyethylene glycol). PEG has a secondary advantage of not only being a drying retarder but also a flow improver. You can find PEG at pharmacies as well (also a laxative) but also at some hardware and wood working stores.

However, for a dollar or two more, you can get a bottle of Flow Aid and a bottle of drying retarder (or a bottle of airbrush medium) and not have to worry about tracking things down and the weird looks at the pharmacy for all the laxatives you are buying.

Matte Medium

Dries mostly clear. I say mostly...because it is mostly. The matting agent is normally a clear crystal of some form which when captured in the cured paint creates an irregular surface that cause light to scatter as opposed to a smooth surface that you get on gloss finishes. Even though the crystals are clear, they can (provided you apply it thick enough) cause a frosted look. Most matte mediums will alter the color while wet - but once dry, you should not see a significant change in color (provided you do not overload the paints).

Years ago - when I was broke...I would mix my own airbrush compounds using various constituent components like flow improver, drying retarder, acrylic mediums, matte mediums, alcohols and water. It works just fine, but you do need to practice to figure out what specific ratios you need for your local conditions (all sorts of factors come into play like relative humidity, altitude, temperature...). Now, I generally use the manufacturers thinner or Liquitex/Golden Airbrush Medium (I use both...like Golden better, but I can get Liquitex locally).

Starting out, I would recommend getting a bottle of the manufacturers thinner and using that to start with. Once you get a handle on the basics, if you want to change it up, research the aspects of the various additives to see what you need to get a different behavior/effect from what you get from the preformulated material.

Thank you, that was a very informative post.

As per the windex argument. Some that say that windex is bad via the color and ammonia recommended to use the clear automotive window cleaner that did not have ammonia in it because it stripped window tint. So would that not cure both problems? My shop I play 40k at is rather close to a hobby lobby so I'll check if I can get a bottle of the airbush medium from liquitex, but I did notice it wasn't on their website but they had matte medium and about 100 different things lol. So I'll see about that as well. I like how you said you can't overthin with a medium.

One question though. What is a reducer? is that another name for thinner? as hobby lobby has the Wicked Reducer from Createx which is their cheap paint brand I guess. From the site "Add W100 Wicked Reducer to colors to make thinner and more transparent. Allows colors to flow and spray well through smaller tip-size airbrushes and operated at lower PSI settings. W100 Reducer may be mixed with Wicked Colors in any ratio or amount. It does not affect shelf-life of colors after mixing." so is that basical the same thing as a manufactures thinner? I mean I want to pick stuff up I can get locally other than the paints... my only options are the GW paints which I do not like, and the really cheap ones at said hobby lobby. I've read really good stuff about vallejo and I can get them from a seller on ebay for a decent price so I'll pick those from him but I would like to be able to get the rest of the stuff locally.

Vallejo thinner medium.

Works better than water, works for acrylics. Never had any problems with it as it is essentially pigmentless paint that you add to your paint

MitchellTyner wrote:
Thank you, that was a very informative post.

As per the windex argument. Some that say that windex is bad via the color and ammonia recommended to use the clear automotive window cleaner that did not have ammonia in it because it stripped window tint. So would that not cure both problems? My shop I play 40k at is rather close to a hobby lobby so I'll check if I can get a bottle of the airbush medium from liquitex, but I did notice it wasn't on their website but they had matte medium and about 100 different things lol. So I'll see about that as well. I like how you said you can't overthin with a medium.

One question though. What is a reducer? is that another name for thinner? as hobby lobby has the Wicked Reducer from Createx which is their cheap paint brand I guess. From the site "Add W100 Wicked Reducer to colors to make thinner and more transparent. Allows colors to flow and spray well through smaller tip-size airbrushes and operated at lower PSI settings. W100 Reducer may be mixed with Wicked Colors in any ratio or amount. It does not affect shelf-life of colors after mixing." so is that basical the same thing as a manufactures thinner? I mean I want to pick stuff up I can get locally other than the paints... my only options are the GW paints which I do not like, and the really cheap ones at said hobby lobby. I've read really good stuff about vallejo and I can get them from a seller on ebay for a decent price so I'll pick those from him but I would like to be able to get the rest of the stuff locally.

Yah - some people like the clear window cleaner, some like the ammonia free window cleaner...but I always sort of go back to the question of why? If you are a hobbyist - an 8 ounce bottle of airbrush medium will last you a very, very long time. If you are painting in high enough volumes where your material costs really start to become an issue...then you are probably using other peoples money to pay for your materials and should bill them out accordingly. Since the window cleaner (Windex or otherwise) is just a cheap way of replicating effects that you get with additives from companies like Liquitex...just pickup the additives. They will be more reliable and your long term costs will be minimal (I think the last bottle of Flow Aid I bought is now about 4 years old and still almost a quarter full...and I paint a lot).

Reducer = Solvent Thinner

Extender = Binder Thinner

Thinner = Something to make paints less viscous.

Thinner is sort of a generic term. It doesn't really tell you much of anything in terms of what it is and how it works...only what the end result is. Reducers will normally be a solvent thinner of some form. Alcohol and plain water will make up the majority of them for acrylic paints. The term is more often used when dealing with enamels and lacquers as opposed to acrylics though. Extenders are another way of thinning out paints. For acrylics, they tend to be a low viscosity pure acrylic polymer. For the most part, really thin gloss varnish.

Mediums further complicate things as they also are not too specific. Something like Liquitex Matte Medium can function as an extender and a matting agent. You will normally want to reduce it a bit right out of the bottle though, as it is a bit thicker than I like (I know some people who do not though...). Golden Matte Medium though won't work as an extender - at least not without significant thinning, it is rather thick. Airbrush mediums are normally an Extender base with some additional additives (flow aids to reduce surface tension, drying retarders to prevent tip dry and paints from drying before they hit the surface).

Once you get outside the world of water based paints though - terms like reducer become a bit more complicated. Certain paints require a specific reducer which will react chemically with the paint binder in order to activate it. This starts the polymerization process and allows it to cross link into a tough as nails finish. In particular automotive polyurethanes will use specific reducers depending on temperature and other factors.

Which sort of gets to the other bit...you mention Wicked Colors...not really their cheap brand, just a different line from Createx. It is different for several reasons - the chief of which is that it isn't really a water based acrylic, it is a water borne polyurethane. While it isn't nearly as sensitive as automotive polys - it is the same general concept at play. In many respects water borne and water based paints act the same way - and for casual users they may never even see the difference, but the much lauded Vallejo Primer is a water borne polyurethane. They cure to a harder finish than acrylics and normally have better adhesion properties. You can thin them with water - but water isn't a proper solvent for use with them (in some regards it is a bit like the "water based oil paints"). Wicked Colors do not need to be activated - so you are not on the clock as soon as you mix them.

For the paints - you have Hobby Lobby - you have Testor's Model Master paints. The Model Master Acryl line is very good - cheap (especially when bought on sale at Hobby Lobby) and covers a broad range of colors. They tend to be a bit more subdued than your hobby paints though - this isn't a bad thing - but you might have a hard time finding all the colors you want in order to do something like a Slaanesh based army.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

MitchellTyner wrote:
Thank you, that was a very informative post.

As per the windex argument. Some that say that windex is bad via the color and ammonia recommended to use the clear automotive window cleaner that did not have ammonia in it because it stripped window tint. So would that not cure both problems? My shop I play 40k at is rather close to a hobby lobby so I'll check if I can get a bottle of the airbush medium from liquitex, but I did notice it wasn't on their website but they had matte medium and about 100 different things lol. So I'll see about that as well. I like how you said you can't overthin with a medium.

One question though. What is a reducer? is that another name for thinner? as hobby lobby has the Wicked Reducer from Createx which is their cheap paint brand I guess. From the site "Add W100 Wicked Reducer to colors to make thinner and more transparent. Allows colors to flow and spray well through smaller tip-size airbrushes and operated at lower PSI settings. W100 Reducer may be mixed with Wicked Colors in any ratio or amount. It does not affect shelf-life of colors after mixing." so is that basical the same thing as a manufactures thinner? I mean I want to pick stuff up I can get locally other than the paints... my only options are the GW paints which I do not like, and the really cheap ones at said hobby lobby. I've read really good stuff about vallejo and I can get them from a seller on ebay for a decent price so I'll pick those from him but I would like to be able to get the rest of the stuff locally.

Yah - some people like the clear window cleaner, some like the ammonia free window cleaner...but I always sort of go back to the question of why? If you are a hobbyist - an 8 ounce bottle of airbrush medium will last you a very, very long time. If you are painting in high enough volumes where your material costs really start to become an issue...then you are probably using other peoples money to pay for your materials and should bill them out accordingly. Since the window cleaner (Windex or otherwise) is just a cheap way of replicating effects that you get with additives from companies like Liquitex...just pickup the additives. They will be more reliable and your long term costs will be minimal (I think the last bottle of Flow Aid I bought is now about 4 years old and still almost a quarter full...and I paint a lot).

Reducer = Solvent Thinner

Extender = Binder Thinner

Thinner = Something to make paints less viscous.

Thinner is sort of a generic term. It doesn't really tell you much of anything in terms of what it is and how it works...only what the end result is. Reducers will normally be a solvent thinner of some form. Alcohol and plain water will make up the majority of them for acrylic paints. The term is more often used when dealing with enamels and lacquers as opposed to acrylics though. Extenders are another way of thinning out paints. For acrylics, they tend to be a low viscosity pure acrylic polymer. For the most part, really thin gloss varnish.

Mediums further complicate things as they also are not too specific. Something like Liquitex Matte Medium can function as an extender and a matting agent. You will normally want to reduce it a bit right out of the bottle though, as it is a bit thicker than I like (I know some people who do not though...). Golden Matte Medium though won't work as an extender - at least not without significant thinning, it is rather thick. Airbrush mediums are normally an Extender base with some additional additives (flow aids to reduce surface tension, drying retarders to prevent tip dry and paints from drying before they hit the surface).

Once you get outside the world of water based paints though - terms like reducer become a bit more complicated. Certain paints require a specific reducer which will react chemically with the paint binder in order to activate it. This starts the polymerization process and allows it to cross link into a tough as nails finish. In particular automotive polyurethanes will use specific reducers depending on temperature and other factors.

Which sort of gets to the other bit...you mention Wicked Colors...not really their cheap brand, just a different line from Createx. It is different for several reasons - the chief of which is that it isn't really a water based acrylic, it is a water borne polyurethane. While it isn't nearly as sensitive as automotive polys - it is the same general concept at play. In many respects water borne and water based paints act the same way - and for casual users they may never even see the difference, but the much lauded Vallejo Primer is a water borne polyurethane. They cure to a harder finish than acrylics and normally have better adhesion properties. You can thin them with water - but water isn't a proper solvent for use with them (in some regards it is a bit like the "water based oil paints"). Wicked Colors do not need to be activated - so you are not on the clock as soon as you mix them.

For the paints - you have Hobby Lobby - you have Testor's Model Master paints. The Model Master Acryl line is very good - cheap (especially when bought on sale at Hobby Lobby) and covers a broad range of colors. They tend to be a bit more subdued than your hobby paints though - this isn't a bad thing - but you might have a hard time finding all the colors you want in order to do something like a Slaanesh based army.

Again thanks for the post, I guess I should just bite the bullet and purchase a bottle or two of airbrush medium. I hope the hobby lobby has it as I'm tired of ordering online lol.

When you consider how much you paid for the airbrush, how much you paid for the paints (unless you're mixing them yourself from a limited palette, you've probably spent a decent chunk of money on paints), the amount of money you've spent on models and the amount of money you've spent on other random crap related to assembling, painting and playing with models... the airbrush thinner really doesn't seem that expensive anymore

Personally I just think getting an airbrush thinner like Vallejo's is the easiest way to start. If you're like most people, you're going to spend your first few hours/days/weeks with the airbrush fighting to get a decent coat of paint without pooling or splattering, using an actual airbrush thinner will just make life a bit easier IMO. Once you're painting awesome models and have all the smooth blending sorted, then start thinking about branching out more.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
When you consider how much you paid for the airbrush, how much you paid for the paints (unless you're mixing them yourself from a limited palette, you've probably spent a decent chunk of money on paints), the amount of money you've spent on models and the amount of money you've spent on other random crap related to assembling, painting and playing with models... the airbrush thinner really doesn't seem that expensive anymore

Personally I just think getting an airbrush thinner like Vallejo's is the easiest way to start. If you're like most people, you're going to spend your first few hours/days/weeks with the airbrush fighting to get a decent coat of paint without pooling or splattering, using an actual airbrush thinner will just make life a bit easier IMO. Once you're painting awesome models and have all the smooth blending sorted, then start thinking about branching out more.

\

lol true but with all that other crap my disposable budget is crying at me right now. The last bit I've got to do on the cheap or the stuff I got is gonna sit there looking pretty for the next month or two while my fiance' stares at me and ask why did I buy all that stuff lol.

Just for the record guys, Liquitex actually invented acrylics.
They above all others really ought to have the experience to know what theyre doing with them.

Personally I prefer the Vallejo Airbrush thinner, But before trying that I wouldve recomended Liquitex Airbrushing Medium.

Les's recipe of 50% water/flow aid and matte medium works well too. But I prefer pure binder as I can thin to any ratio I like.

For cleaning I prefer 99.9% Isopropyl alcohol, and acetone if I was lazy and let it dry in the airbrush. - then again I did purposefully buy an airbursh with ptfe o-rings and triple chrome coating intended for use with harsh solvents.

For thinning I use the following:

1- Grab an old rubbing alcohol bottle.
2- Fill with 2/3 Liquitex Matt Medium
3- Fill 1/3 with distilled water
4- 1 cap of flow-aid
5- Mix well then transfer some of the mix into a dropper bottle and work from there.

5.5 Add drying retarder if you feel the need to.

Yeah I picked up a couple bottles of the Liquitex airbrush medium and I'm gonna give that go when they come in.

I will probably end up in the long run making my own like that because I hate having to order the stuff and wait and wait for it to come in. The craft/hobby stores around don't carry the airbrush medium but they do have the matt medium... though no flow aid... so I'll at least have to get a couple bottles of that.

I have used just about every thinning agent out there - (water, distilled water, flow aid, windex, taymia acrylic thinner, hobbyco acrylic thinner, airbrush medium, etc.).

I can say, just buy some airbrush medium. It is absolutely amazing and worth every penny.

Sure, each of the others has their uses and pros and cons (see all the other posts) - even water has its cons dependnig on the paint and pressure.

The airbrush medium is chemically designed to thin paint - and it rocks it.

Finally, I can say, if you can - use airbrush paints....they eliminate a lot of hassle in the long run.

best of luck!

davethepak wrote:
I have used just about every thinning agent out there - (water, distilled water, flow aid, windex, taymia acrylic thinner, hobbyco acrylic thinner, airbrush medium, etc.).

I can say, just buy some airbrush medium. It is absolutely amazing and worth every penny.

Sure, each of the others has their uses and pros and cons (see all the other posts) - even water has its cons dependnig on the paint and pressure.

The airbrush medium is chemically designed to thin paint - and it rocks it.

Finally, I can say, if you can - use airbrush paints....they eliminate a lot of hassle in the long run.

best of luck!

Yeah I'm thinking of ordering the ultramarine blue equivalent in the Vallejo air line, the primer I'm using is made for airbrushing it on so idk. I think I got to work with the pressures on that one though. But yeah a couple bottles of the base colors in the Air line would probably work wonders for me lol.

Since you have used the airbrush medium, let me ask. What is the correct ratio to use with most paints?

Ahhh....the age old question of "how much do I thin my paint..."

Tragically, the best answer is "as much as you need to".

Its quite subjective - how thick is the paint you are thinning? What pressure are you spraying at? What size needle on your brush?

Proper paint thinning is an experimental thing, and one that you learn over time.

On average, I would say a 1 to 1 ratio, but again, that varies a lot.

One suggestion, is that if you mix in the airbrush cup, put the thinning agent in FIRST, and the paint in second - that way you don't have a big glob of paint deep in the innards of the brush.

best of luck!