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Hi guys. Just getting back into the game after a 6mo. hiatus. Use to play Tau and my anti-flyer capabilities were pretty amazing... Going to be playing Eldar this go around and I'm curious what our best options are for dealing with Heavy Flyer lists? I'm talking Daemon/Nid Flying MC spam (5-6+ MCs) or Necrons 5~ croissant spam lists etc.

I don't see very many lists with Crimson Hunters and their other flying counterpart. So what do these top eldar Jetseer or WS spam lists do vs flyer spam armies?

Ally in some Tau.

Forgeworld also offers you the nightwing and Firestorm which are also nice anti-air, and a guided set of hornets is pretty nasty. The Crimson hunter can and will ruin the day of any flier in the game; but it had better damn come in second.

Most people though prefer Wave Serpents and Warp Spiders for this task.

Ya, was looking for Eldar specific answers since I see Jetseer and WS still dominating top Eldar lists. But I don't really see how they get around dealing with mass flyer spam armies... WS and WarpSpiders?

 syypher wrote:
Ya, was looking for Eldar specific answers since I see Jetseer and WS still dominating top Eldar lists. But I don't really see how they get around dealing with mass flyer spam armies... WS and WarpSpiders?

Guided warp spiders can throw like 20 or so shots that will get about 6-7 S7 hits against vehicle fliers.

This is guaranteed to ruin their day.

So long as you get twinlinking somewhere, Wave Serpents can easily put out enough S6-7 to hurt fliers pretty badly also.

Against FMCs once you ground them with your weight of fire, you have the mass of MEQ and Vehicle busting shooting to absolutely shred them.

Serpents and Hunters...you also have a ton of options for a Quad Gun/Icarus.


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I've yet to have a single game where I regretted having my Hunter.

 ductvader wrote:
Serpents and Hunters...you also have a ton of options for a Quad Gun/Icarus.


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I've yet to have a single game where I regretted having my Hunter.

Fast shooting Exarch/Avatar of Kain on the Icarus.

Double the S9 AP2 fun.

Also, flakk missiles on Dark Reapers or War Walkers with EMLs are fairly decent.

A lot of it is positioning... the eldar are so fast, so really can mitigate the flyers effectiveness just by moving under them and such. Obviously this isn't great against FMCs, but I have been able to use my jetbikes to ground them and then pound them into the dirt with WS and heavy wraith cannons.

I played a game versus a dual storm raven death cult assassin build at a local tournament, and was able to keep him from effectively using his flyers by moving around, and then when he finally hovered to disembarked, i blew those suckers right out of the sky. It can be done.

It is definitely something you need to address based on your build. I have been running 3 WK and a few WS so i can by and large ignore most flyers. Now flyer spam is another thing.

I've recently began dropping my 3rd WK in favor of 2 crimson hunters for just that reason... flyer spam and FMC spam.

Flyer spam only tends to be Necrons really, everyone else seems to take two max.

2 Vendettas, 2 Helldrakes, 2 Ravens...

Well there are lists with many Talons...but Talons go down easy to serpent fire.

 ductvader wrote:
Flyer spam only tends to be Necrons really, everyone else seems to take two max.

2 Vendettas, 2 Helldrakes, 2 Ravens...

Well there are lists with many Talons...but Talons go down easy to serpent fire.

The Marines can spam fliers with formations now. It's quite a neat formation overall.

 Kain wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Flyer spam only tends to be Necrons really, everyone else seems to take two max.

2 Vendettas, 2 Helldrakes, 2 Ravens...

Well there are lists with many Talons...but Talons go down easy to serpent fire.

The Marines can spam fliers with formations now. It's quite a neat formation overall.

While I am unfamiliar with it, Marine fliers tend to be subpar (Not Tau bad) and should have a much harder time getting points for scoring units.

 ductvader wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Flyer spam only tends to be Necrons really, everyone else seems to take two max.

2 Vendettas, 2 Helldrakes, 2 Ravens...

Well there are lists with many Talons...but Talons go down easy to serpent fire.

The Marines can spam fliers with formations now. It's quite a neat formation overall.

While I am unfamiliar with it, Marine fliers tend to be subpar (Not Tau bad) and should have a much harder time getting points for scoring units.

1d4chan wrote:Adeptus Astartes Storm Wing - Two Storm Talons and a Storm Raven in one formation.
The Storm Talons act as Escorts for the Storm Raven (Meaning than when you're rolling for reserves, you only roll for the Storm Raven), thus giving the Raven some extra wounds if it gets set upon when they arrive. The Talons also give the Raven the Strafing Run rule so long as at least one of them isn't destroyed. Yep, GW be mad desperate to push out the fliers between this and Death From the Skies.

They exist outside of the FOC so you can swarm the skies with Marine fliers to an extent only the Necrons and Tyranids can match (and I suppose the Guard with squadrons).

Which is all kinds of weird but whatever.

Strafing Run Ravens, that is noteworthy.

 ductvader wrote:
Strafing Run Ravens, that is noteworthy.

It also means his fliers are coming in bricks rather than dribbles.


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Even more annoying is

1d4chan wrote:Saint Tylus Battle Force - Cassius gets to bring along at least one Tyrannic Veteran Squad and up to six Storm Talons as a formation.
Your Storm Talons are gonna be the stars of this formation as they can not only choose whether they want to infiltrate or start on-board in hover mode, but whenever they hit an enemy, then the Vets can ignore cover with their guns, since they saw who was getting hit. Stack on the Vet's Preferred Enemy (Nids) and Zealot rule against the Nids, and you'll begin to weep along side your Tyranid-using foe. Difference is that you'll be crying tears of joy at your muderous prowess, while they'll be crying over how hard Cruddace fethed them over.

That's right, six storm talons for no FOC slots that don't have to start in reserves if they don't want to.

You had better damn hope you have a lot of anti-air.

Normally serpents can take out any flyer under AV12 without a problem, when you get to spammed AV12+ the CH is your best bet, with 4 S8 Ap2 shots at a possible BS5 and TL to hit/pen it will murder flyers, and with its vector dancer can camp on table edges away from attackers.

 Arbiter wrote:
Normally serpents can take out any flyer under AV12 without a problem, when you get to spammed AV12+ the CH is your best bet, with 4 S8 Ap2 shots at a possible BS5 and TL to hit/pen it will murder flyers, and with its vector dancer can camp on table edges away from attackers.

Also worth noting that Vector Dancer is rumored to change to two 90 degree turns at any point during its movement...which will effectively allow it to "strafe" (not strafing run) with greater efficiency.

I doubt it ^^ That would be just silly, wait.. Its Wh40k

Ok so WS can generally take out a majority of the AV12 or under flyers. But when you want real dedicated flyer shooting I might need some Crimson Hunters to balance out the list more. Against flying MCs basically, WSs shooting until they ground and my WKs can handle the clean up.

Okay that makes me feel more comfortable with my list now. I might figure a way to throw in a Crimson Hunter for some more balance.

Thanks guys!

If your going for just one Ch its worth noting that the exarch upgrade is well worth its points, making it BS5 takes away the need to be TL from a farseer so another unit can take it.

 syypher wrote:
Ok so WS can generally take out a majority of the AV12 or under flyers. But when you want real dedicated flyer shooting I might need some Crimson Hunters to balance out the list more. Against flying MCs basically, WSs shooting until they ground and my WKs can handle the clean up.

Just be careful of any instant death weapons

Also been pondering.

Believe 4 serpents and 10 spiders is enough. Hope it is, because thats what im bringing to the next tourney (uber competitive one)

Want to point out something. Crimson hunters (and exarchs) are over rated.
4 hits (with exarch) around 2 pens/glances, not including jink. Thats good, but wont "ruin any fleirs day".

Did you include its re roll to pen/glance? (I know you didn't)

As others have mentioned Wave Serps are awesome for munching flyers

My typical competitive list includes 3-4 Serpents and a Wraithknight who do my AA duties. I always take a Farseer to guide/prescience the knight.

FMC's arn't much to worry about. All you've got to do it ground them, then all the shooting i've got finishes them off. Snap shotting wraithknights are great for Crones (T5) and Av12 flyers. Mainly because he ID's the Crones, and any flyer hit by S10 is going to jink.

Serpents seem to struggle against AV12. Talons/Scythes go down easy to them though. I tend to not worry so much about flyers. It makes my first turn hit so much harder when he's go so little on the board. Eldar mobility and shooting means that his limited troops are that much more vulnerable with points off the table. Yeah, those flyers might wreck half my army, but by that point, I may have already won the game.

Warp Spiders are a good backup. Get them guided/prescienced, and they can jump around till they get rear armour.

If he's got flyers coming on, try to keep your serpents shields up. They'll likely have lascannons/melta, and you'll want each and every one to get a shot off. Always take the shuricannon on them, for an extra 3 S6 shots.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Want to point out something. Crimson hunters (and exarchs) are over rated.
4 hits (with exarch) around 2 pens/glances, not including jink. Thats good, but wont "ruin any fleirs day".

You did forget the reroll to damage...but Crimson Hunter Exarchs are also great for Instant Death Precision Shots and Vehicle Squadron Precision shots.

Crimson Hunters are one of those units that see an exponential increase in strength as player skill increases.

But they do require an Autarch, Scrier's Gaze, or a Comms.

^^ The best is just taking a farseer and hoping for scrier's gaze so you don't waste points if they end up not being needed (like someone who doesn't have flyers) or needed less (your going second vs someone who has a flyer).

 Arbiter wrote:
^^ The best is just taking a farseer and hoping for scrier's gaze so you don't waste points if they end up not being needed (like someone who doesn't have flyers) or needed less (your going second vs someone who has a flyer).

Or run the Solitaire. He actual tag teams pretty well with the Hunter. I like to think that my Solitaire and Hunter Pilot are bros.

 ductvader wrote:

 Arbiter wrote:
^^ The best is just taking a farseer and hoping for scrier's gaze so you don't waste points if they end up not being needed (like someone who doesn't have flyers) or needed less (your going second vs someone who has a flyer).

Or run the Solitaire. He actual tag teams pretty well with the Hunter. I like to think that my Solitaire and Hunter Pilot are bros.

Whats a Solitaire?

 syypher wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 Arbiter wrote:
^^ The best is just taking a farseer and hoping for scrier's gaze so you don't waste points if they end up not being needed (like someone who doesn't have flyers) or needed less (your going second vs someone who has a flyer).

Or run the Solitaire. He actual tag teams pretty well with the Hunter. I like to think that my Solitaire and Hunter Pilot are bros.

Whats a Solitaire?

A term for an autarch with the mantle of the laughing god at minimum.

Named because he/she has harlequin kit that prevents him/her from being in a unit.

There are sadly speaking, no rules for actual solitaires from the fluff yet.

 syypher wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 Arbiter wrote:
^^ The best is just taking a farseer and hoping for scrier's gaze so you don't waste points if they end up not being needed (like someone who doesn't have flyers) or needed less (your going second vs someone who has a flyer).

Or run the Solitaire. He actual tag teams pretty well with the Hunter. I like to think that my Solitaire and Hunter Pilot are bros.

Whats a Solitaire?

Autarch (Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God, Fusion Gun)

Then pick your flavor:
Shard of Anaris or Laser Lance
Banshee Mask or not

2+ rerollable cover save Swiss Army knife character.

That's really cool! I was wanting to run something like that but I didn't know it actually had a name