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I know the standard loadout is relic shield for Eternal Warrior but setting that aside for a moment, how significant is a 3++ save without EW?

I ask because a shield will almost always cost you an attack in addition to points.

It's a right pain in the butt when trying to damage it, seeing as you are only instantly killed from S8 and up and you save 2/3rds of those for minimal points it is totally worth it.

You are also losing a bonus attack and typically going from a 4+ to a 3+.

I would say for a budget captain on bike a storm shield is pretty legit, however over all I would say its meh.

Now for command squad guys or people without an invul save its pretty good.

 Leth wrote:
You are also losing a bonus attack and typically going from a 4+ to a 3+.

I would say for a budget captain on bike a storm shield is pretty legit, however over all I would say its meh.

Now for command squad guys or people without an invul save its pretty good.

When you lack any Inv Save it's a big upgrade but going frok 4++ to 3++ at the cost of a swing isn't as clear cut.

A good example would be lightning claw and shield vs dual claws.

I still think that a Librarian Terminator should take a SS as a mandatory upgrade. Has kept mine alive for countless games over the years.

On the bike captain the points savings might be worth it as there's not that much S10 or insta death.

Of course Enfeeble or rad grenades + S8 could make you sad as well.

also, if its a normal storm shield its added ontop of your wargear (for vanilla marine captains/chapter masters) so you can go PF,LC, and SS

 BewareOfTom wrote:
also, if its a normal storm shield its added ontop of your wargear (for vanilla marine captains/chapter masters) so you can go PF,LC, and SS

You can but you won't get the extra attack so it's less valuable.

 minigun762 wrote:

 Leth wrote:
You are also losing a bonus attack and typically going from a 4+ to a 3+.

I would say for a budget captain on bike a storm shield is pretty legit, however over all I would say its meh.

Now for command squad guys or people without an invul save its pretty good.

When you lack any Inv Save it's a big upgrade but going frok 4++ to 3++ at the cost of a swing isn't as clear cut.

A good example would be lightning claw and shield vs dual claws.

Lol, thats basically exactly what I said.

Storm shields are for Power Fists.

 minigun762 wrote:

 BewareOfTom wrote:
also, if its a normal storm shield its added ontop of your wargear (for vanilla marine captains/chapter masters) so you can go PF,LC, and SS

You can but you won't get the extra attack so it's less valuable.

How about shield, melee weapon and a combi-weapon then?

For me, the biggest issue with the Storm Shield is that it is generally most effective when combined with things which look totally stupid.

I've had awesome luck with a Captain on a bike with TH/SS. He makes a great tank, and doesn't need to rape face with a jillion attacks, since he can kill most things with his 3 base, and survive whatever hits back that lives.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Storm shields are for Power Fists.

I've gone back and forth on what is more important, AP2 or I5.
For a none EW HQ , I think the I5 might be better.

 minigun762 wrote:
I've gone back and forth on what is more important, AP2 or I5.
For a none EW HQ , I think the I5 might be better.

Largely depends on the army you're facing. As a general rule, however, I'll put stock in the survivability of a Space Marine HQ rather than his speed. A good chunk of the things he'll wind up in CC again won't much care about that I5, but most of them care about the inability to get a wound through on the model.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
I've gone back and forth on what is more important, AP2 or I5.
For a none EW HQ , I think the I5 might be better.

Largely depends on the army you're facing. As a general rule, however, I'll put stock in the survivability of a Space Marine HQ rather than his speed. A good chunk of the things he'll wind up in CC again won't much care about that I5, but most of them care about the inability to get a wound through on the model.

It also very much depends on the character's role; if he's an active hunter, then he can choose to rely of hitting first and killing the enemy before they strike back, avoiding anything he can't kill. If he's a bodyguard for a unit who would otherwise be unable to handle some threats, then he needs to have the capabilities to threaten and survive many different opponents.

3++ was the new black until 2++ re-rollable came out.

Interesting point about being prepared for anything . I am coming from a BT tactics where I have access to Rending through challenges.