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On the codex I see stormvermin are core choice, but on GW they are under special. Are stormvermin core or speical?

Thank you

If they're core in the army book then they'll be a core choice.

Core unit.

I read this and I had to check:

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer?N=102351+4294966454+4294966832&Nu=product.repositoryId&qty=12&sorting=phl

What in the world's up with this?

New codex on the way?

MarkCron wrote:
New codex on the way?

Army book!
(more likely they just made a mistake. It's easy to assume they are specials. Not gonna complain if I get one of those pretty books though.)

 Purifier wrote:

MarkCron wrote:
New codex on the way?

Army book!
(more likely they just made a mistake. It's easy to assume they are specials. Not gonna complain if I get one of those pretty books though.)

Ummmm....<searching for excuse>............

...............................

Sorry!

God I hope skaven get a new army book soon. I'm starting to lose hope here on skaven. Just nothing really feels that fantastic to me. It's the 2nd oldest army now.

I don't think we'd have a release so soon though. I mean 40k is getting re-done and we have more wood elves coming soon so that wouldn't make sense. Also no idea with bretonnia and what's going on there.

If nothing feels fantastic with Skaven, you're doing it wrong mate
Beastmen and Bretonnians deserve a quick re-release way more than our rats do

And there always has to be an "Oldest" book, it doesn't automatically entitle you to an update. Skaven were absolutely disgusting in the tail end of seventh because they re-wrote the rules and were basically an 8th ed army using 8th ed rules in a 7th ed world.

I actually sent them an email yesterday about the whole misplaced Stormvermin (they still show up in Core though too).

And @danny1995: just because an army was "disgusting" at any point in its existence it doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve an update. Every army that isn't in the current edition is entitled to an update.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I actually sent them an email yesterday about the whole misplaced Stormvermin (they still show up in Core though too).

And @danny1995: just because an army was "disgusting" at any point in its existence it doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve an update. Every army that isn't in the current edition is entitled to an update.

I agree with this. And I'd like to add that skaven SHOULD be rereleased. And in a format that follows the rules for warhammer!

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I actually sent them an email yesterday about the whole misplaced Stormvermin (they still show up in Core though too).

And @danny1995: just because an army was "disgusting" at any point in its existence it doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve an update. Every army that isn't in the current edition is entitled to an update.

I agree with this. And I'd like to add that skaven SHOULD be rereleased. And in a format that follows the rules for warhammer!

Maybe then they could get some better looking Lord/Hero models in plastic!

Seriously though, those Lords and Seer models are suffering from the old "ugly metal model" syndrome.

I'm not saying that it makes them not deserve an update, but a lot of people who complain about their power in 8th were the same people running around crushing heads in 7th claiming they weren't overpowered.

danny1995 wrote:
I'm not saying that it makes them not deserve an update, but a lot of people who complain about their power in 8th were the same people running around crushing heads in 7th claiming they weren't overpowered.

The army may have been good when it came out, but it's hardly aged well, head crushing back in the day or not.

danny1995 wrote:
I'm not saying that it makes them not deserve an update, but a lot of people who complain about their power in 8th were the same people running around crushing heads in 7th claiming they weren't overpowered.

I never really complained until this year. As far as OP goes I may not have realized it back then. To be fair though these days everybody plays what's new and what's OP. For some reason the last time I was at my GW there was 3 lizardmen players in 4 of the fantasy games going on all of which being one vs one. Every time I face lizardmen and they use a slann I lose because I can't get close enough to it and at least engage it in combat. For the most part lizardmen can do everything skaven can do except better minus good initiative and hordes. Their magic is updated to 8th and is fantastic (though the old slann in 7th was dumber) whereas skaven have crappy magic that only does -1 to toughness and has 12" range (skaven need buffs to win some fights whereas lizardmen don't), their weapons teams can all fire and shoot and are harder to kill with more forgiving misfire charts (warpfire throwers blow up 5 out of 6 times according to misfire results but for lizardmen weapons teams they just eat d3 handlers which is very forgiving), they have monsters which are pretty good, they have way stupider leadership (you can't negate cold-blooded just try to make it way less effective) and can still fairly reliably fall back and re-group with skinks and rally with cold-blooded, saurus get extra attacks now for every 6 they roll to hit I think (which turns into a lot more attacks), they have flyers, armor and monstrous infantry. Skaven only have monstrous infantry and ours are overpriced according to people and I've really tried but rat ogres can only effectively kill probably one unit before they just get flanked and die thanks to having frenzy. In fact pretty much all the potent melee things skaven have are frenzied excepting the abomination. We even have a super version of frenzy which also kills some of our guys.

So I dunno our leadership is ok except for units on the flanks like gutter runners and some other things. You have to stay within the general's leadership bubble or suffer severe leadership issues (so you have to castle and can get flanked easier). This is kind of stupid because skaven need to flank the opponent to deal with these stupid super elite units. Even if you do somehow get the flank and win combat resolution by 3 I've had people pass the break test and then reform after combat to face my guys in their flank which tends to turn into a slaughtering for my side. It's also tough to bait out the enemy unless one unit is in their charge arc and skaven are so stupidly slow they tend to be outmaneuvered easily, if you deploy far away from each other unit it could work but then you run the risk of being too far outside of the leadership bubble and it's crap all over again. Weapons teams gets sniped by anything with 5-10 shots. I'm sure even with the storm banner active one stray shot would somehow make its way into the weapons team members' faces. Our shooting outside of gutter runners and warp lightning cannons (and sometimes the doomwheel which whiffs sometimes) and the weapons teams I just mentioned are pretty poor.

We have a few good spells and most are underwhelming basic spells that could use more powerful boosted versions like what 8th did. I hate boosting my skaven with 3 spells only to have one enemy spell go off that hurts me more than all 3 of mine helped esp. if they just 6 dice that crap.

Since my usual fights are against lizardmen I tend to fight magic that shuts my magic phase down and boosts their's (which also means no warp lightning spam if that was at all possible), my shooting is just not too great (weapons teams could be useful but then they'd just get sniped by anything (still might be my best hope regardless) and they have better movement and can surround me in a couple turns if they wished.

-------------------

@TanKoL: Maybe I do suck and I just don't know. I've seen normally unskilled players at least tie with me due to all the things I mentioned. My army in real life hasn't really been changed for a long time. The only other place I have played is online (vassal pretty much though I have most of what I use) and at tournaments. My normal army is sub-par in ways and the other two groups have really good players and online people take whatever they wish. I've also seen some possible hardcore net lists. So on one hand most of what my GW plays and what I face is lizardmen. That said I feel there is definitely a power level to the armies. I have played against some factions and totally wiped the floor with them. It's just rather confusing because everybody says most of the special aren't that good, throwing out a reliable amount of firepower that does something and won't die in a hurry tends to be hard and I can't move quickly.

Really at the end of the day all skaven do anymore is spam units and throw out rares. The rares have random movement and you have no idea or control over how far they will move. This could me one dead doomwheel going way too far or doing nothing by going way too short without all the misfires or mishaps it can have (terrain, firing with a misfire result). Also whenever you face somebody good enough they'll just take a fast unit and move it into the flank of your random movement units and force you into the middle of nowhere for most of the game unless you can get rid of them with shooting (which doesn't do enough) or magic (which also doesn't do enough, has short range on most and can be full blocked out by a better wizard). This frustrates me as people tell you to get rid of skirmishers with the random movement units and this would be true if the fast ones couldn't just move into your flank an inch away and just direct you into nowhere all game long.

-------------------

Sorry I just had to rant. Keep in mind I probably do suck it's just really frustrating. I have problems in this game and no idea how to fix them. Half the time I just want to take out vampire counts and see how well I can do with them. Playing as skaven currently is just rather frustrating for me. Aside from throwing out heroes on every side to face the enemy or heroes to make the kills skaven just can't hold the line long enough. I understand our guys die more but even with a bajillion units the enemy wears them down thin quickly and in large points games (2500 pts and beyond) you run out of room to deploy in a good order.

So yeah wall of text but the army needs an update. Something flavorful so I don't have to rely on hordes and/or rares until I puke.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

danny1995 wrote:
I'm not saying that it makes them not deserve an update, but a lot of people who complain about their power in 8th were the same people running around crushing heads in 7th claiming they weren't overpowered.

I never really complained until this year. As far as OP goes I may not have realized it back then. To be fair though these days everybody plays what's new and what's OP. For some reason the last time I was at my GW there was 3 lizardmen players in 4 of the fantasy games going on all of which being one vs one. Every time I face lizardmen and they use a slann I lose because I can't get close enough to it and at least engage it in combat. For the most part lizardmen can do everything skaven can do except better minus good initiative and hordes. Their magic is updated to 8th and is fantastic (though the old slann in 7th was dumber) whereas skaven have crappy magic that only does -1 to toughness and has 12" range (skaven need buffs to win some fights whereas lizardmen don't), their weapons teams can all fire and shoot and are harder to kill with more forgiving misfire charts (warpfire throwers blow up 5 out of 6 times according to misfire results but for lizardmen weapons teams they just eat d3 handlers which is very forgiving), they have monsters which are pretty good, they have way stupider leadership (you can't negate cold-blooded just try to make it way less effective) and can still fairly reliably fall back and re-group with skinks and rally with cold-blooded, saurus get extra attacks now for every 6 they roll to hit I think (which turns into a lot more attacks), they have flyers, armor and monstrous infantry. Skaven only have monstrous infantry and ours are overpriced according to people and I've really tried but rat ogres can only effectively kill probably one unit before they just get flanked and die thanks to having frenzy. In fact pretty much all the potent melee things skaven have are frenzied excepting the abomination. We even have a super version of frenzy which also kills some of our guys.

So I dunno our leadership is ok except for units on the flanks like gutter runners and some other things. You have to stay within the general's leadership bubble or suffer severe leadership issues (so you have to castle and can get flanked easier). This is kind of stupid because skaven need to flank the opponent to deal with these stupid super elite units. Even if you do somehow get the flank and win combat resolution by 3 I've had people pass the break test and then reform after combat to face my guys in their flank which tends to turn into a slaughtering for my side. It's also tough to bait out the enemy unless one unit is in their charge arc and skaven are so stupidly slow they tend to be outmaneuvered easily, if you deploy far away from each other unit it could work but then you run the risk of being too far outside of the leadership bubble and it's crap all over again. Weapons teams gets sniped by anything with 5-10 shots. I'm sure even with the storm banner active one stray shot would somehow make its way into the weapons team members' faces. Our shooting outside of gutter runners and warp lightning cannons (and sometimes the doomwheel which whiffs sometimes) and the weapons teams I just mentioned are pretty poor.

We have a few good spells and most are underwhelming basic spells that could use more powerful boosted versions like what 8th did. I hate boosting my skaven with 3 spells only to have one enemy spell go off that hurts me more than all 3 of mine helped esp. if they just 6 dice that crap.

Since my usual fights are against lizardmen I tend to fight magic that shuts my magic phase down and boosts their's (which also means no warp lightning spam if that was at all possible), my shooting is just not too great (weapons teams could be useful but then they'd just get sniped by anything (still might be my best hope regardless) and they have better movement and can surround me in a couple turns if they wished.

-------------------

@TanKoL: Maybe I do suck and I just don't know. I've seen normally unskilled players at least tie with me due to all the things I mentioned. My army in real life hasn't really been changed for a long time. The only other place I have played is online (vassal pretty much though I have most of what I use) and at tournaments. My normal army is sub-par in ways and the other two groups have really good players and online people take whatever they wish. I've also seen some possible hardcore net lists. So on one hand most of what my GW plays and what I face is lizardmen. That said I feel there is definitely a power level to the armies. I have played against some factions and totally wiped the floor with them. It's just rather confusing because everybody says most of the special aren't that good, throwing out a reliable amount of firepower that does something and won't die in a hurry tends to be hard and I can't move quickly.

Really at the end of the day all skaven do anymore is spam units and throw out rares. The rares have random movement and you have no idea or control over how far they will move. This could me one dead doomwheel going way too far or doing nothing by going way too short without all the misfires or mishaps it can have (terrain, firing with a misfire result). Also whenever you face somebody good enough they'll just take a fast unit and move it into the flank of your random movement units and force you into the middle of nowhere for most of the game unless you can get rid of them with shooting (which doesn't do enough) or magic (which also doesn't do enough, has short range on most and can be full blocked out by a better wizard). This frustrates me as people tell you to get rid of skirmishers with the random movement units and this would be true if the fast ones couldn't just move into your flank an inch away and just direct you into nowhere all game long.

-------------------

Sorry I just had to rant. Keep in mind I probably do suck it's just really frustrating. I have problems in this game and no idea how to fix them. Half the time I just want to take out vampire counts and see how well I can do with them. Playing as skaven currently is just rather frustrating for me. Aside from throwing out heroes on every side to face the enemy or heroes to make the kills skaven just can't hold the line long enough. I understand our guys die more but even with a bajillion units the enemy wears them down thin quickly and in large points games (2500 pts and beyond) you run out of room to deploy in a good order.

So yeah wall of text but the army needs an update. Something flavorful so I don't have to rely on hordes and/or rares until I puke.

I got as far as you trying to engage a slaan in combat. That made me lose faith that the rest of your complaint was well founded. There is no way skaven should struggle against new lizardmen.

SLAAN ARE INFANTRY THAT SIT IN INFANTRY. If you struggle to WLC the bunker and then thirteenth it, or stick a doom rocket onto it. Or skitter leap an engineer with the brass orb onto it. Or stick an abomb into it. Then maybe you aren't playing the army right. As it stands, the Skaven book itself is bent. It's just following a different track to the rest of warhammer. That gives it an advantage.

Well it was a rant and good luck getting your abomination to the army when somebody takes flyers to the side of it in the first place re-directing into nothing all game long. You could probably use the storm banner then but that'd ruin your own shooting. I guess it's one or the other. Speaking of which I had a bad experience with a 7 turn storm banner before and I kind of don't want to use one again unless I face dwarfs, empire or possibly ogres or just have pretty much no shooting (esp. warp lightning cannons).

The spells are cool and all till the enemy just hand waves all your spells gone. Yes thirteenth works but you're banking you will get all the dice you need every magic phase and you'll be in range before your enemy just 'dwellers' the unit to death killing your caster with most of the unit and whoever else may be inside of it. It is absolutely ridiculous. At least 13th doesn't pick characters out of units unless they're already mostly dead and it's selective that it can only hit infantry and nothing else.

My opponents also go heavy on magic dispel so generally we're going into a magic phase with them having more dice than me. Unless I do irresistible force on a spell and pray for it nothing's coming. Also it's pretty hard to get skitterleap in a magic phase when the opponent just gets rid of it super fast. The warlock with brass orb might work but it's just one artillery die and you're hoping it won't scatter off into nowhere like it probably will (you're banking on both skitterleap being allowed off and the brass orb hitting directly or within 2" off). If it does you're sh*t outta luck.

Doom rockets are also super random. I could skitterleap a warlock into the flank but that won't wipe out an entire unit of temple guard. It could help for 13th but really it sounds like 13th is all I'm hoping for by what you're saying.

It's not the slann by itself that's tough but the whole army. The slann is just icing on the cake. Besides as I said if you read it all random moves are just that. Random. Sometimes they go far sometimes they barely go anywhere and any enemy with any sort of fast skirmisher that you can't deal with just goes to within an inch of the flank of an abomination or doomwheel if only to force any of your random movement units off to wherever they want.

If I ever try to get any mage in combat it's because I'm trying to prevent spells from going off. That said if skink priests are nearby I suppose it's irrelevant but with other armies it could work to an extent.

--------------

Besides if you stopped reading only at the beginning then you can't see why any of these are problems.

Maybe you're not playing against (or as a) lizardmen players that go for pure 'life' spells, don't fly to within an inch of the flank of your abomination or doomwheels to force them off into nowhere and have a magic phase that can deny me mine while boosting their own army.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
I got as far as you trying to engage a slaan in combat. That made me lose faith that the rest of your complaint was well founded. There is no way skaven should struggle against new lizardmen.

Beat me to it... Seriously dude, we must have been over these exact same points with you about the Skaven/Lizardmen match up 3 or 4 times now. If your still choosing to ignore everything you've been told then it wouldn't matter if the Skaven Army Book was re-written and re-released every fortnight, you're going to keep failing.

Stop clogging up peoples threads with the same whining rubbish.

Fine then tell me what absolute tactical genius you have that I'm lacking here.

I said before I may not know what's best to use and to be fair I haven't been building up the models I need lately so that could be part of it. The others I play are online bad*sses so there's that.

I wouldn't get mad if you didn't attack me. I just need to vent over things I'm frustrated about. Lately that's getting my *ss kicked every which way and facing lizardmen way too much.