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I...what...since when would any space marine invite a deamon and not be a heretic? Ezkiel?! Play testing aside why would that be an option for any loyal ... No words.

You're forging a Narrative!

The Dark Angels hate CSM. Therefore, I guess they would want the irony of CSM being killed by servants of the very gods they serve.

Loyal Space Marines are bros with Greater Daemons. That book that Fateweaver carries around is actually a copy of the Codex Astartes.

Actually, seeing that in WD really did annoy me. Space Marines summoning demons is pretty mad, but the Dark Angels? Those same Dark Angels that really, really, really hate Chaos... And their Chief Librarian of all things. Mental. It's not so much forging a narrative as taking a hammer to it.

I really don't think GW cares anymore, so long as they can sell SM players that Bloodthirster they were never going to buy,

It's the narrative - only GW's narrative is like daytime soap operas - It'll be a dream or an evil twin, or a mind controlled Ezikiel or can be completely forgotten the next game.

There is no respite, no cannon, no fluff there is only WTF?!one.

Dark angels are chaos. It totally makes sense for them to be summoning daemons.

 ashcroft wrote:
Loyal Space Marines are bros with Greater Daemons. That book that Fateweaver carries around is actually a copy of the Codex Astartes.

Thanks I needed that. Seriously though... What is next? Let's come up with a grey knight chapter that worships slanesh. Or Pacifistic orks diplomats. Maybe we can retcon Abbadon as heading towards the hive fleet to save the imperium.

 Sasori wrote:
You're forging a Narrative!

I gladly forge a narrative, but I'll never forge heresy!

It's the ability to summon a daemon, not that he has to. If you don't think it is fluffy for him to do so, then don't?

Ezkiel no crazy talk but im sure they meant to cause a little steam as said above don't tell the story you don't want to.
Personally I could see a SM liby facing total destruction falling to chaos to win the day, what does it matter one way or another get chomped by a hive fleet or slow it a bit more then get chomped by the fleet? die now with everyone or save everyone and die later to the inquisition? may seem more rational wen facing impossible odds and deaths a knocking.

Another Alpha Legion plot brought to fruition!

Ezkiel summoning a Deamon......... is that Heresy.....

Let's come up with a grey knight chapter that worships slanesh.

Yeah we all know its Khorne they worship

i can see Daemons appearing as a result of mesing with powers if there is a radical Inquistor but this does seem a bit stupid.

Gonna get some dreadknights for my Chaos Daemons it's gonna be so dope

I think it's going to be a result of perils of the warp, like being possessed.

 ashcroft wrote:
Loyal Space Marines are bros with Greater Daemons. That book that Fateweaver carries around is actually a copy of the Codex Astartes.

And all tzeench demons are blue , to be as close as possible to ultramarines and Girlyman their spiritual liege.

haha, well im glad its part of a WD blurb story/narrative game that bends every rule and breaks those it doesnt bend, so im not concerned about marines summoning daemons.

Besides i spose in a way it would be fair... BA do have Mephy, and he is a daemon for sure..

Yeah, because no Imperial psyker has EVER fallen to the tempation to harness Chaos for good. It's not like there was a Primarch who made a similar mistake or anything.

Further, it's a good thing that the Dark Angels have proven bastions of unfailing loyalty in the past, and that there's nothing shady about their past at all. Nothing. Shady.

On an ending note, it's further good to know that people have already read 7th edition so they're not just drawing wild conclusions from a White Dwarf about how the rules are going to work. Truly, we are fortunate to have Dakka, a bastion of sanity and... whatever the opposite of knee-jerking is.

Clearly Tzeentch was actually writing the background this entire time.

The day fluff broke.

Was that after the music went away

You make stupid stuff up and sell it as fluff forge a narrative.

I bet if they proceeded to write "Then the Bloodthirster ravaged the Space Marines.", you'd all be just fine.

Fluffwise it bothers me that it's intentional. I've played Rogue Trader a lot and like the idea that a very bad perils test can bring out deamons and even a deamon prince. But being able to bring out a bloodthirster at will... that's just stupid. It depends on how it actually played out, but with what's available I think it's silly.

Game wise I hate the idea. If any wounded psyker can just be traded for a fresh MC then that's a turn I really don't want to see.

Yeah they really need to watch how this is implemented... Else I'm bringing my army of 50pts Thirsters - I mean primaris psykers...

 Wilytank wrote:
I bet if they proceeded to write "Then the Bloodthirster ravaged the Space Marines.", you'd all be just fine.

Only he did it in the post game fluff. If someone is ok getting a narrative draw , then it is probably ok .
Lost a game against eldar ? No problem , your army was just delaying eldar to an incoming exterminatus. Grav star butchered your army ? No problem , their ship was caught in a warp storm on way back and destroyed . Demon FMC butchered your dudes , as soon as the battle ended they turned on each other and killed themselfs .

I think we'd be fine if the player made a risky gamble to summon a bloodthirster that took on a swarmlord when he very well could have turned into a unit of bloodletters that charged into another squad of centurions or something. Having quick access to something that powerful and having control of it is what worries people.

A Librarian, joining battle with the Tyranids, draws on his psychic powers. As with every other time, as he touches the Warp the powers of Chaos whisper to him that they could defeat all his enemies if he only lets them. He ignores their seductive promises and just casts Prescience or something.

The battle has started going badly, but the Librarian forges ahead, desperately spewing fireballs left and right into the unending swarm. With each use, the whispering voices of Chaos grow louder and louder, describing in detail how the battle is lost and all his brothers will die. But they could help save them all if he only says the words.

The Librarian and his few remaining battle brothers are surrounded by the swarm. They have lost, and will soon die, and with them the all-important mission they were entrusted. He calls upon his powers again, heedless of the cost of pushing himself too far, and Chaos speaks to him one last time in a clear voice. It would be the simplest thing, and he would live. The mission would succeed.

His men are dying in front of him. With their position lost the swarm will destroy what they came to protect. The honor of the Dark Angels will be smeared with failure, and Space Marines do not fail. With no other choice, the Librarian calls out for aid from the last source possible, and his prayers are answered by a bloodthirsty howl of triumph that drowns out the sounds of even the greatest tyranid bio-organisms.

What makes for a decent story does not really make for decent game play.

There is a huge difference in downing an aircraft and it scattering as it explodes and losing an aircraft and driving it directly towards the nearest enemy and putting a large blast hit on them because the pilot was trying his best to take out just one more enemy before his end.

This problem is even more prominent when you consider that 40K fluff has taken some... very cinematic liberties. Like a mortal man with metal boxing gloves punching out a molten embodiment of a god. There are explanations for it story wise, I'm sure. But there are things that I don't want to see on the table.