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so the typical ork solution to a problem is to hit it until it goes away. 99% of the time this actually works well, and its simplicity is underestimated by my opponents.

but now I'm up against a dancing eldar army of 2 wraithknights and 4 waveserpents, 1750 points.
I want to get up close and hit it, but they are so fast moving even with trukks it proves a struggle. if I'm lucky I can engage 2 wavserpents with good charge rolls, and the rest of the boys fall prey to volume of fire. so now I want to return fire, orky style.

so I want to make an army dedicated to shooting at eldar, to take down waveserpents and wraithknights. so I'm thinking:

HQ: KFF mek, good against everything but serpent shields, it's still good. need a mek to take grot tanks.
elites: grot tanks with rokkits, lootas
troops: trukkboys, rokkit in boys, rokkit on trukk
fast attack: deffkoptas with rokkits
heavy support: big guns with kannons & zzapp guns

all guns either behind an aegis or on a skyshield. I'm erring toward the skyshield as it protects against nightspinners and serpent shields. trukks, tanks and koptas will roll forward. turn one objective is to kill one thing, which I know will start to ruin his plans anyway. with only 6 units on the field (ignoring the token guys inside the serpents) he'll have a lot of target priority to do. I'll be able to match 2 units for each of his. lootas and deffkoptas I think will stand a chance of killing a waveserpent between them on turn one, unless they all go flat out, in which case i'd go for the knights. the weight of S8 AP3 firepower the orks can bring should humble a wraithknight quite nicely I think. If I had space for battlewagons instead of big guns I'd take a unit of tankbustas, just to prove a point. dakkajets are one strength too low to really help against eldar, which is a shame.

have I missed out any good ideas? have I come up with some terrible ones? should I just charge forward screaming and hope he can't get away in time? C&C always appreciated.

Honestly, I think you are much worse off trying to outshoot an Eldar player. I have never lost a game to someone who tried to outshoot my Eldar, even against Tau and AM. However, this is not to say that having some good dakka is a bad thing, I just wouldnt go overboard with it.

A large group of Lootas on a skyshield could work well against those serpents. I would not even bother with the Aegis as the Serpent Shields DGAF all over it.

Wagon Rush. Or multiple nob bikers with bikerbosses. No other options really. You can't outshoot them with orkses. No matter how hard you try.

If you want to outshoot eldar, ally in tau or AM. They'll gona give you a chance of wrecking a few serprnts before your wagonboyz arrive.

45 Lootas in 3 BW's or 36 in 3 Looted Wagons on a Skyshield with BikerNobz and BikerBoss.

I think outflanking Koptas are too expensive, not reliable enough.

My friend who plays Orks always says "Stompa"

I hate to say this, but it almost sounds like you're boned before you even start.

I think it's absolutely critical that you get first turn, to get your trukks the up the field. Move 13, turbo 13, wait and pray to gork. This sounds like a pretty uphill battle regardless, but it will certainly be a little easier if your troops aren't all stuck in your deployment zone with no transports after turn 1. Plus they wouldn't get a jink if they haven't moved yet. How many trukks do you have? Those serpents will easily kill one trukk per turn, cover or not. Unless you're really good at hiding. So get your boyz where they need to be turn 1, either right next to a serpent that you're planning on dropping with AT fire, or next to an objective. I would absolutely take the skyshield over the aegis too, since roughly half of their shots will ignore cover anyway. The big gunz plus lootas sounds good on that though.

Where will the mek be?

You can pretty safely count on the lootas to drop a serpent a turn (on a non-turbo boost turn), but all the other stuff will be pretty unreliable and need combined fire, like grot tanks plus deffkoptas focusing at another. Zzap guns are generally pretty bad for their points, especially when the knight is T8, you need to roll an 8 just to wound on a 4+ for that one shot. I think rokkit spam is your best ranged bet for that, the kannons will be MUCH more reliable, especially since you don't even need the knight is only a 3+ save anyway, you don't even need AP2 from the zzap guns. Otherwise powerklaws have always been my go-to... Although unfortunately you've got small squads in the trukks that'll run away from only a couple casualties if you lose combat. And all that being said, I've never found rokkits in boyz squads to be worth it at all either. Just not enough shots to justify the 10 points at BS2. I do completely agree about the dakkajets, and it's such a shame, because they are SO awesome and orky.

Are you going after the knights with the boyz? If so, I'd keep the rokkits for a lucky pot shot before charging, otherwise, I'd do big shootas all day every day against their wimpy troops, and throw the BS on the nob too, for precision shots.

I would also consider shoota boyz instead of slugga choppas. You don't need the extra attack in combat against their dinky troops, but softening them up before they attack first in combat preserves a ton of boyz.

I would probably ignore his knights altogether at first. They're big, and scary, and shoot really hard, but there's almost no way for you to kill one altogether (wasting fire to cause wounds without killing it will not hinder his firepower) and they've only got 2 shots each. Your armor is as good as dead, but your boyz will only be picked off two at a time after that. The serpents on the other hand shoot a TON of S6 ignore armor save and/or cover shots, which can mow down a squad of trukkboys/lootas a turn, once they've obliterated the trukks, so I would make those top priority. You'll also destroy his mobility in doing that too. If you keep your trukks spread out rather than clumped together, he'll have less options for places to run away to when trying to avoid you.

I hope this helps, good luck!

 Awesomesauce wrote:


You can pretty safely count on the lootas to drop a serpent a turn (on a non-turbo boost turn)

Let's count. s7 needs 5+ to glance or pen. You need 5+ to hit and if the serpent is in the open, it cover saves on a 4+. So, to drop a serpent you need 54-55 shots. That's a combined shooting of 2 squads of lootas that are lucky enough to roll 2-3 on d3. And if he's in 3+ cover - which is easy if he's behind ruins - you need 82 shots.

Now let's see what you need:
- All in range - 48 vs 60 on a serpent.
- All with LoS - unlikely.
- You get first turn and the enemy starts in the open - very unlikely.

If you start lootas on board - even if they're on a landing pad with 4++, 3-4 serpents will reliably kill 10-15 of them in the first turn without much problems. And will force pinning tests and ld checks. It's enough to kill 8 lootas per squad to force 2 checks (pinning, ld) on ld7. So, i'd say you're killing 1 serpent at best with 675 pts of lootas + a landing pad.

If you get battlewagonz for lootas, you're spending around 1k points and have to worry about protecting your sides - which are enormous - and your vehicles are mostly immobile and avoidable. The remaining points won't be enough to deal with knights not telling about serpents with superior range and mobility.

Don't try to outshoot eldar powerlists with orkses - that's an almost guaranteed loss unless he's very unlucky or plain stupid.

What works vs them: Nob bikers, Wagonspam, Allies.

alas it was a narrow loss, but a loss nonetheless for the orks. mainly due to the fact that I couldn't find my skyshield.

I had 3 grot tanks with RL, 3 buggies with TLRL, 4 deffkoptas with TLRL, 10 stormboys, 2 trukks of shootas with a RL on the trukk and a RL in the squad, one with the mek in there, 3 kannons, 3 zzapp guns (need to make more kannons), an aegis with an icarus in place of the quad gun, and 20 lootas, 10 of which were in a battlewagon.

he has 2 wraithknights, 2 waveserpents full of guardians and 10 wraithblades with eldrad and 2 spirit seers in there too. he got fortune but thankfully didn't get the +1 save power.

we had big guns never tire, which was good as it let me put 38 T7 wounds on the two objectives I had. I got first turn and pushed his entire army into a corner by deploying my lootas on one flank and the rest of my army on the other. damn if he's not terrified of lootas!

I would have won if I'd planned ahead more. I multicharged 3 units of mine (trukkboys and stormboys) into the wraithblades, wheras I should have lined them up to slow him down all game, he was miles from any objectives. he finally took one off my big guns on turn 5. live & learn, eh?

wraithknight one got lucky on the first turn & still had 2 wounds left, which he promptly boosted to 4 again -.-
second wraithknight was misplaced from deepstrike, so I lined him up to be shot to death. he had one wound left, which he lost to overwatch from my icarus XD

lootas were mainly focussed on killing the wraithknights, as they could claim objectives and get me a point if I kill them. when I did go for the waveserpents, they died.

the one foolish move of mine was a trukk not moving to get in the way of the wraithblades. that could have won me the game.

all in all it was really close all game ,then the last wraithknight jumped onto an objective, destroyed the balltewagon that was claiming it, the wraithblades made it to the big guns and got their objective, and it ended at 10-4 to the eldar, it was 10-2 to the orks before that :(

I think killing a wraithknight in one turn is probably good to qualify for out-shooting the eldar I had 20 rokkits/kannons and 20 deffguns in my army. he had 4 S10 shots and 2 waveserpents, he could only kill 4 units a turn, and only 3 at the start. deffkoptas with scout move got unlucky on their shooting rolls, they could have ruined the wraithknight turn 1 (they got 1 hit out of the 4 wounds I did cause, they could have done 2 more).

all in all I think with a skyshield to slow them down on the charge and some better planning on my part, the orks can outshoot the eldar! yaaay!

Damn, that's a shame about the loss, close game at least kept it interesting. As much as I love me ladz, I've mostly just stopped bothering playing against eldar or tau anymore, unless its a completely friendly game, and they get build their list knowing that. Eldar because they are shootier, choppier, and harder to hit than anything we could ever field, and tau because I don't have enough battlewagons. That is, of course, until July (at least hopefully)

Let's count. s7 needs 5+ to glance or pen. You need 5+ to hit and if the serpent is in the open, it cover saves on a 4+. So, to drop a serpent you need 54-55 shots. That's a combined shooting of 2 squads of lootas that are lucky enough to roll 2-3 on d3. And if he's in 3+ cover - which is easy if he's behind ruins - you need 82 shots.

Lol, good point. Just goes to show how far a little bias goes.