Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Generally speaking, which point levels should I start seeing models such as vehicles, flyers, monstrous creatures, everything?

For example, would something like a 750 point list have some vehicles? Or would it primarily still be HQ and troop options?

<deleted...contradictory example came to mind>

At any points

It would all depend on the player.

Its easy enough to bring a hell drake, riptide or land raider in a 500 point game.

But i start considering AT, AA, and Anti monster around 1000+ (this is on top of the general equipment they would already have (i generally dont leave home without a few meltas)

It depends on the army, but usually at 750 you will have some vehicles (I am using this term to include both ground and flying vehicles). They may not be the heavier armor found in most armies' Heavy slot, but you could expect some transports or other lighter armor.

Same goes for Monstrous Creatures. A Chaos army could be led by an HQ Monstrous Creature (daemon prince) for example, so point size doesn't necessarily determine which types of units you will face, unfortunately.

If you are trying to list build for smaller games it might be a good idea to establish ahead of time with your opponent what is and is not allowed. I know some people draw the line at AV 14 in smaller point games just because there are fewer options available to take down such highly armored units in smaller games. I realize pre-arranging a game isn't always an option, but if you can do it it will make the game better for all involved.

Indeed, if someone is horrible enough you can stick a heldrake in a 500 point list.

It's always best to have anti tank from the lowest possible level.

Ive dropped 3 talos into a 750 point list before - so you can see some MC and armour even heavy armour

500 point games are notorious for seeing LandRaiders especially from GK players. 'nids will be bringing an MC to a 500pt game, and it will be a troop most likely.

At 250 you will see rhinos and chimera for transports, and maybe a Razorback or Whirlwind.

My buddy brought a Riptide into a 500 point PE campaign we were doing. He's a nice guy, but we spent every game for months just telling him what a dick move it was.

However, that's also where we learned the key tactic to beating Tau: ignore the Riptide, play the mission.

I once did.

Sorcerer - 60pts
10 cultists - 50pts
10 cultists - 50pts
Heldrake with Baleflamer - 170pts
Heldrake with Balelamer - 170pts
500pts

It might seem like a really horrible thing to do, but he asked me to 'do my utter worst' because he was going to a tournament.

Light armour is cheap. Your probbly always going to see dedicated transport units.

A rhino may be basic but that metal box is cheap if not kitted too much up.

For our escalation leagues, the rule was that individual models couldn't cost more than 25% of the entire point value of your army. That means no Riptides or Heldrakes until 750pts, no Land Raiders or Mephistion until 1000pts, no Fateweaver until 1250pts, no Be'Lakor until 1500pts.

that's a great rule. I'm sure there are still a few armies that can work shenanigans around it, but it sure does sound like it cuts out a lot of cheese in smaller games...

+1 @ DanielBeaver....cool rule.

Anything over than kill team (200pts) will have those models.

I bring anti-infantry and anti-armor at values up to 1k. Past that, I start adding in some dedicated anti-air.

You need anti-transport as early as 200 points (kill team)
Anti-tank/MC at 500 points.
Anti-air at 1000 points (could appear before, but at that level you can focus on erasing ground forces)

More along the lines of how much of certain models, not when they appear at all. People find ways to sneak in expensive or "unexpected" models all the time at low points because odds are theres no counter for it.

I did it against Necrons at 500pts. Brought an Ionhead hehehehe. He had no answer to it aside from punching it's butt, which i wasnt going to allow.

Generally for every 750pts i expect one big target or two medium targets. Thats just my own experience, your opponents might be different.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
I did it against Necrons at 500pts. Brought an Ionhead hehehehe. He had no answer to it aside from punching it's butt, which i wasnt going to allow.

I won that game too.

It really depends on the people you are playing and if there are any type of league rules in play. Even at 500 points you are going to get troops, hq and a toy that will ruin your day.

For example, locally we started a slow grow league. it start at 500 points. Here are some sample lists:
The eldar player had a spirit seer, rangers and then blew most of his points on a 5 man wraithguard unit, with d-scythes mounted in a wave serpent.
The necron player had a high toughness destroyer lord, a tomb spider and 2 squads of warriors.
The ork player had a large blob of boys and 12 more boys in a trukk. his HQ was a bigmek with KFF and he had a looted wagon with the template weapon.
The space marine player had Chapter master on a bike, with 4 more bikers attached and 2 tac squads, iron hands rules so he got FNP and IWND.
My list (Tau) was equally douchey. HQ was a Buff-mander lite suit, attached to a 3 man crisis team (2x MP each suit) 2 squads of 6 fire warriors and a squad of 10 kroot with sniper.
High toughness models or armor 12 transports are an up hill fight in low point games.

Once we go to 1000 points I know the necron player and the ork player are going to burn almost the full 500 point increment on flyers.

last time my FLGS held a 750 point list we had a pretty wide varity but yeah mostly troops. transports, and light vehicles. worst thing I was was a stormtalon that was pretty ineffective

I would probably expect models around the, say ~50 point level. Below that you don't actually have enough points to purchase a full squad. If you want a full force organization complaint game I would say at least 175.

Tyranids will have a MC starting at 250 pts. At 300 pts, it's a FMC.

at 750 you will see FMC, transports, maybe a leman Russ and other low armor tanks, but Im not so sure about flyers. Maybe the cheaper/lower armor flyers. Then at 1500 you'll find everything.

Technically, you can even get Superheavy vehicles into low-point battles.
Whether that is a smart choice is a different matter entirely.

Generally, you will see low to medium points-costed vehicles and MCs in low-point games.
The more heavily armed and expensive heavy vehicles, MCs and ICs usually only show up in 1000+ or 1500+ battles.