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Now, some of us have seen this image:



And this leads me to conclude, if it is true, that CSM will be taking an indirect buff...
Nothing top-tier, but something worth worrying about for the IOM. In the Champion of Chaos rule (CoC), the SC must always challenge if possible, and MC's must also challenge in mele, else they cannot do anything. So far, this has meant that kitting CSM characters for melee has by-and-large been a waste of time. The character would spend an entire valuable assault turn punching a 4 point conscript sergeant, and then take the next phase killing 1/10th of his points worth in cannon fodder, getting into the open and being shot at by the entire enemy army.

This indirect buff, while it won't stop you from getting shot at, means that CoC isn't as bad as it used to be.
As long as your character is one of the following, you will receive the benefits I will list below:

Be:
-Abaddon
-Daemon Prince (including Be'lakor)
-Kitted to be worth under 145 points

Gain:
-Daemon Princes can now wreck face instantly, as wounds carry over from the challenge. Spam the attacks as much as possible with the Axe of Blind Fury or the Black Mace, and watch whole units evaporate.
-Killing characters means boons rolls! Adding the extra wounds to the rest of the unit means more kill power.
-Abaddon get the chance to use all 200+ points of troop-murdering power right off the bat, and can get boosts from the boon table as normal.
-Kitting any character that isn't immune to daemonic ascension to be worth well under 145 points ensures an overall points gain when it occurs, and they'll be combat monsters. The unit loses a leader, yes, but an extra DP on the field for free is nothing to sniff at.

Loss:
-Spawndom is still there.


It is not a massive boost, but it makes things a little nicer for us


Add in flying DP's getting a little tougher with the reduced grounding tests, and being able to use Inv saves on D-weapons, and things get easier again.

I'm going to love using my Daemon Prince and my Lord of Change. My regular opponent has already changed his pants.

I dont think that CSM Champion of Chaos particularly benefit.

I mean even without it, in combat with some beaty nasty(smash Fer) and a guard blob, before the IG player could just challenge, and either smashFer cannot fight or he is stuck in the challege.

This change will make melee characters better, but not particularly CSM Champions of Chaos. They are still as stupidly hamstrung as before.

MCs do get a buff though. DPs dont have champions of chaos though.


So this is a buff to melee characters, not a buff for champions of chaos, unless the champion of chaos is a melee character.

It really hurts cultists champions, who have the champion of chaos rule.

Anything with a Daemon weapon now does.

My DP always seemed to roll 11 attacks when he was in a challenge with an space marine sergeant. Not those 10 overkill wounds might actually do something.

Yeah this sucks for cultist champions who will have to stand up to a challenge, get smashed, get thier buddies all killed and thier buddies can't even fight back.

The rule favours:
IC/MC vs regular unit (a little - seargent cant fight)
IC/MC vs csm unit (a lot - seargent must fight)

While Challenge rules benefited the defender in 6th, in 7th it will benefit the attacker (unless the defender is a single model). Now there are very few reasons to NOT declare a challenge if you do charge.

 Vector Strike wrote:
While Challenge rules benefited the defender in 6th, in 7th it will benefit the attacker (unless the defender is a single model). Now there are very few reasons to NOT declare a challenge if you do charge.

Because if theirs is better the wounds will strike back into your unit instead.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
While Challenge rules benefited the defender in 6th, in 7th it will benefit the attacker (unless the defender is a single model). Now there are very few reasons to NOT declare a challenge if you do charge.

Because if theirs is better the wounds will strike back into your unit instead.

Yeah I dont see this as opening up "cinematic" challenges, just encouraging big nasties.

Defeats the purpose of challenges. I can understand combat res bonuses carrying over for the fight, that makes sense. Taking wounds and not being able to fight back is just a sillier version of the horrible congo line rule that is in effect now. Was hoping that would go away with 7th as it makes no sense whatsoever.

Challenges just don't make sense period, why would a bloodthirster punch out a cultist champion then just sit there and why would all his mates stand back and watch. The new rule does improve it a bit but I would prefer it if:

characters involved in a challenge can only be allocated wounds after all other members of their unit are dead. characters in challenges always allocate wounds against their opponents first.

If you refuse a challenge you don't get to swing (as with current rules)

simple, cinematic and fluffy. The bloodthirster prioritises the guy with the power fist but his mates still lob in krak grenades because.. Why wouldn't they !?!?