Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've played a few games and my god do they kick an unholy amount of ass! Everything from unit's of 5 through to a bus' of 10 here is what i have found out about them.

Unit Size

Wild Riders hit like a truck no matter what size they are in, but they are also very fragile, so finding the right amount between killy and cheap is paramount. I think a unit of 5 can work, but i have found units of 6 work best for me. Units of 5 can work, but if they lose a model or 2 they become unlikely to brake anything, while a unit of 6 can lose 2 models and still be a threat to many non-combat units. Anything bigger and they give up a lot of points to the first fireball or Volly Gun turned their way, while anything small is relegated to strictly chaff removal. A unit of 6/7 with command is 19-22 attacks, that will often put down 10 or so models and can break many units with ease.

Command?

Wild Riders can use command effectively, while they are fast Cav and they can sometimes do without the Standard and Champ really help with their main purpose; Breaking units on the charge. The champ is useful simply for the extra attack, but you can do without him, while the Banner will always be worth it.

Characters?

Generally, Wild Riders don't need anymore hitting power. I was almost contemplating a Stag Captain until i realized he wouldn't get a LOS!, so now i believe they can work best on their own. Characters wouldn't add much to the unit anyway, they already pump out enough high strength attacks to deal with armour and they shouldn't be charging hordes anyway. *IF* you are running a bus, then a BSB is always helpful for the extra combat rez (If you are taking a Banner, a simple War Banner is best, but flaming is good if you are going HPA hunting) and i guess a High Magic Lore attribute could be helpful, but is putting a mage in the thick of it is wise idea?

What can we expect of them?

The world. Well, not really, but they are really one of the hardest hitting units in the game right now for their points and speed. 3 Ws 5 Str 5 AP ASF attacks EACH on the charge + 2 Str 4 attacks from the mount for 13 slaves is simply amazing. They preform best against things they will get their re-rolls to hit against due to ASF, and against things that are below T6 for easy of wounding. So while they cannot handle a Daemon Prince especially well, they can handle pretty much anything, up to and including Skull Crushers or units that don't have a TON of static combat rez.

Shields or no?

Yes, for a single slave more you get a chance to save a 13 slave model. I am sure some people will disagree with me, but the point of Wild Riders is to break units on the charge through combat Rez. There are two ways to do this, to cause lots of damage or to take little, Wild Riders have the damage down so the Shields can only help. Not saying it's a must buy, but if you have the points to spare.

Do they slot into my list?

Wild Riders can fit into almost any list, because they are just so lovingly cheap. A unit of 5 makes a brilliant chaff cleaner, while most lists have this covered a little extra for cheap is nice. A Tree Spirit List (rare as it is) could use these guys as a Hammer unit that Tree Spirits simply don't have, putting a unit of 6 into the flank of a unit being tarpitted by a Treeman is a great way to win games. Believe it or not, arrows don't win games. They don't cause enough damage to secure all but the smallest of victory points, in a mainly shooting army 2 units of 6 Wild Riders can charge down those blocks that your shooting has been whittling away for the past 4 turns.

Where do they fail?

Every unit has a counter, be it Death Stars and 6th spells or Lore of Metal to Knights, Wild Riders are no exception. Where Wild Riders fail is of course survivability, as is the case with all Wood Elves. A unit of Wild Riders is easily whittled away to little if targeted by any meaningful fire power, reducing their numbers until they pose little threat to anyone. There are few ways around this, one being the inherent speed of M9 Fast Cav, the other being Magic Buffs and the last being Target Saturation. But buffs can be dispelled, armies can castle and to some armies they can take out 1 unit of 5 Wild Riders as easy as 2. So don't expose them to unnecessary shooting or god forbid, magic missiles. And always remember, if it is good, take 2.

Thanks for reading my ramblings. Alex

Don't forget the other hard counter.
Charge them.
They can't flee.

Going from 3S5 + 2 S4 to 4 S4 is a huge downgrade.
Wild Riders really need to win the chaff battle, or they can be exposed and cut to pieces.
Attach flying heroes into infantry blocks (so they don't get shot to pieces early) and then charge out over screening units into the wild riders.

Great Tactica article, Alex. Thanks for the field testing and the very clear and well-written piece! I'm looking forward to trying them out again.

And thanks for the counters, Matt! How susceptible are they to being drawn into a bad charge by chaff/misdirection units like Chaos Hounds?

I generally suck at utilizing my fast cav options, so I need to improve with these guys.

 pantheralegionnaire wrote:

And thanks for the counters, Matt! How susceptible are they to being drawn into a bad charge by chaff/misdirection units like Chaos Hounds?

Because they are fast cav, they can simply free reform and dance around chaff. But, if the chaff has just a little durability, suddenly frenzy rears it's ugly head.
Here's what I did.

5 wolf riders form up 1 wide, 5 deep, champion on point. They then charge to wild riders. In remaining moves, another unit of wolf riders move up along side the wolf riders, to get hit in the pursuit.
The 6 S4 AP attacks with ASF kill the champ, and the 6 S4 attacks at init 3 kill off a few more. The two survives break and flee, wild riders must pursue. The pursuit takes them into another unit of wolf riders.
On the wood elf turn, the wild riders are stuck in combat at the start of the turn. In the wood elf combat phase, they slaughter all of the 2nd unit of wolf riders and over-run (compelled by frenzy). This opens the flank to a waiting goblin block that hits them in the flank.
One sneaky stabbin' later, the goblins kill 4 on the charge (re-roll to hit and wound, and armor piercing), break the survive and send him off for the table edge.

The wood elf player felt good about this trade off, after all, he killed 2 units of wolf riders, and got a few more kills on the goblins, until I pointed out the value of a few units of wold riders.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 pantheralegionnaire wrote:

And thanks for the counters, Matt! How susceptible are they to being drawn into a bad charge by chaff/misdirection units like Chaos Hounds?

Because they are fast cav, they can simply free reform and dance around chaff. But, if the chaff has just a little durability, suddenly frenzy rears it's ugly head.
Here's what I did.

5 wolf riders form up 1 wide, 5 deep, champion on point. They then charge to wild riders. In remaining moves, another unit of wolf riders move up along side the wolf riders, to get hit in the pursuit.
The 6 S4 AP attacks with ASF kill the champ, and the 6 S4 attacks at init 3 kill off a few more. The two survives break and flee, wild riders must pursue. The pursuit takes them into another unit of wolf riders.
On the wood elf turn, the wild riders are stuck in combat at the start of the turn. In the wood elf combat phase, they slaughter all of the 2nd unit of wolf riders and over-run (compelled by frenzy). This opens the flank to a waiting goblin block that hits them in the flank.
One sneaky stabbin' later, the goblins kill 4 on the charge (re-roll to hit and wound, and armor piercing), break the survive and send him off for the table edge.

The wood elf player felt good about this trade off, after all, he killed 2 units of wolf riders, and got a few more kills on the goblins, until I pointed out the value of a few units of wold riders.

Or do what I did. Doom and Darkness, Shroud and have that horde of executioners sitting there. Mind you, that's how I deal with most things that like fighting.

The problem with the Wolf Riders is that they are very easy kill points for a chaff unit. And we all know Wood Elves have very little trouble with Chaff. What you did was smart, no denying it, but an equally smart Wood Elf player might of shot those Wolf Riders off the board or not of been in easy charge range of them first turn. I am not sure on the Movement of the Wolf Riders, but I'd but a guess in that Wild Riders are faster, Movement 9 + Forest Strider + Fast Cav is really, really fast. If you got that charge either he got a bit to close, you rolled well for charge or his shooting at you must of failed spectacularly.

Wolf Riders are T 3 with a 5+/4+ Sv right? A single unit of 10 Glade Guard with Trueshot will be killing off 2-3 in a shooting phase, so concentrating to kill them shouldn't be over hard. Against a Goblin list i would say i would probably leave the Wild Riders back a bit to counter charge those pesky chariots you guys get while shooting the chaff off the bored before starting even attempting the big units.

Generally Ldship 9 means they will rarely succumb to Frenzy and make a stupid Charge. What Flying Heroes are there that can hide in units? I can't think of any that would get a LOS! from infantry.

Also, not saying i would charge that full Excercutioner star before it was whittled down, but wouldn't Wild Riders be very good against them? Great Weapon means that Wild Riders strike first with 3 attacks hitting on 4's with re-rolls and wounding on 2's, you would get no armour save due to Str 5 AP. The Stags then put out a fair amount of Str 4 hits also, but they will probably die to return hits. At least we get a 6++!

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
The problem with the Wolf Riders is that they are very easy kill points for a chaff unit. And we all know Wood Elves have very little trouble with Chaff. What you did was smart, no denying it, but an equally smart Wood Elf player might of shot those Wolf Riders off the board or not of been in easy charge range of them first turn. I am not sure on the Movement of the Wolf Riders, but I'd but a guess in that Wild Riders are faster, Movement 9 + Forest Strider + Fast Cav is really, really fast. If you got that charge either he got a bit to close, you rolled well for charge or his shooting at you must of failed spectacularly.

Wolf Riders are T 3 with a 5+/4+ Sv right? A single unit of 10 Glade Guard with Trueshot will be killing off 2-3 in a shooting phase, so concentrating to kill them shouldn't be over hard. Against a Goblin list i would say i would probably leave the Wild Riders back a bit to counter charge those pesky chariots you guys get while shooting the chaff off the bored before starting even attempting the big units.

Generally Ldship 9 means they will rarely succumb to Frenzy and make a stupid Charge. What Flying Heroes are there that can hide in units? I can't think of any that would get a LOS! from infantry.

Also, not saying i would charge that full Excercutioner star before it was whittled down, but wouldn't Wild Riders be very good against them? Great Weapon means that Wild Riders strike first with 3 attacks hitting on 4's with re-rolls and wounding on 2's, you would get no armour save due to Str 5 AP. The Stags then put out a fair amount of Str 4 hits also, but they will probably die to return hits. At least we get a 6++!

The executioners aren't the damage dealers. It's the characters. S7 Dreadlord. Tullaris. Ogre blade master. Sword of might BSB. The executioners can die happily if they survive.

Seems like a dangerous unit to both use and play against. Of course it should blend all unit it meets, but it also is quite vulnarable to 6th spells such as Final Transmutation or simply Curse of Anrihair, as that Dread Lord will be eating in Lords points.

Just wondering, whats to stop this unit getting shot to death for victory points? T3 Elves with a 5+ sv (?) is easy pickings to many armies, either through arrows, guns or anyone who can drop a stone thrower on your head.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Seems like a dangerous unit to both use and play against. Of course it should blend all unit it meets, but it also is quite vulnarable to 6th spells such as Final Transmutation or simply Curse of Anrihair, as that Dread Lord will be eating in Lords points.

Just wondering, whats to stop this unit getting shot to death for victory points? T3 Elves with a 5+ sv (?) is easy pickings to many armies, either through arrows, guns or anyone who can drop a stone thrower on your head.

I have seven-odd units of dark riders in the army and warlocks. They all block off charges and protect them from shooting. And the 30-odd executioners work wonders. Against non-elves I just need 6 left. Against elves, just the 3 non-named characters in front of Tully.

Thanks, all. Getting back to the original Wild Riders, it sounds like they are a clear choice for "best Light Cavalry" unit, for sure. I've never done the 1x5 Fast Cav charge alignment--pretty interesting, and kind of wacky and fun. I like it!

Certainly using the "must pursue" of Frenzy is something to consider when both using and trying to misdirect these Wild Riders, but they certainly sound like they are going to mess up most small and even medium-sized units that they run into.

 pantheralegionnaire wrote:
Thanks, all. Getting back to the original Wild Riders, it sounds like they are a clear choice for "best Light Cavalry" unit, for sure. I've never done the 1x5 Fast Cav charge alignment--pretty interesting, and kind of wacky and fun. I like it!

Certainly using the "must pursue" of Frenzy is something to consider when both using and trying to misdirect these Wild Riders, but they certainly sound like they are going to mess up most small and even medium-sized units that they run into.

Nah. Brolocks are the best fast cav. Sure. Wild Riders can charge and kill stuff. But when I sit 18" away and blast them all off, they won't be charging much any more.

Newly Released models are good.

In other news pope is catholic and bears poop in woods!

 Soteks Prophet wrote:
Newly Released models are good.
In other news pope is catholic and bears poop in woods!

Just like Araloth, Gyrobombers, Sisters of Slaughter, Bloodwracks, Scourgerunners and Troglodons?
New kits don't mean anything about power level, it's simply that without a point of reference balance is likely to be skewed. Whether that is skewed up or down seems to be totally random.

Not to be totally irrelevant to the topic, Wild Riders hit like a freight train but without a reliable way to topple steadfast, it seems like if the enemy can hold you then you're in for a world of hurt. Against enemy elites you'd only need to get a single charge off to validate the unit's cost, but against larger enemies I think you need to get them a cheap source of ranks to crack the unit ASAP. Difficult to accomplish when your cheapest unit is 11pts for a 6+ save...

They hit like a train, but this proliferation of glass cannons will cause a shift to more Magic Missiles, and BS based shooting. And yes Mozzamanx hit the nail on the head with steadfast.

I am adding 2 units of 5 outriders into my empire to assist with this other fast cav issues. Lore of Light does very well too.

I'm more worried about the 'sisters of thorn' command bunkers. Magic resistance 2 and they have a 4+ ward save. Unless you hit them with test or die spells there's just about nothing you can do magically to stop that unit. It's a perfect counter to this 'kill wood elves with magic' mentality that's been going on esp. when they have hero snipers in their army.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I'm more worried about the 'sisters of thorn' command bunkers. Magic resistance 2 and they have a 4+ ward save. Unless you hit them with test or die spells there's just about nothing you can do magically to stop that unit. It's a perfect counter to this 'kill wood elves with magic' mentality that's been going on esp. when they have hero snipers in their army.

If I saw wizard(s) bunkered up in a sister unit (aka The Sorority House), I would still magic missile the wild riders and waywatchers first, and then shoot wild riders. Once the wild riders are dead, I'd move on to dealing with the sisters.
The MR is nice, but the sisters aren't high on the list of Must Die Now; 3rd or 4th place at best.

-Matt