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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/20 20:10:11
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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This might be a really stupid question but does the Deathwatch have any dreadnought blackshields? If so, are any named/otherwise known?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/20 20:13:13
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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If you're a Blackshield, that is your name, or you take a name like "Penitus" or "John Doe" or some ultra-generic name, as you're attempting to purge yourself of some great sin or another.
There aren't any named Blackshield Dreads in DW fluff that I'm aware of, mainly because the DW doesn't have a whole lot of Dreads to begin with and, also, because Dreads have certain support requirements that the DW cannot always meet (sometimes a Space Marine in the DW will be required to stand vigil over a sector of space from a star-fortress... by himself. For two hundred years.).
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/20 20:15:03
Subject: Re:Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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while it hasn't been said they do, I don't see why it wouldn't happen, but given the rarity of blacksheilds, combined with the rarity of dreads in the DW it's proably such a rare occurance as to be near unique
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/20 20:32:30
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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Thought my understanding to a blackshield death is repentence, so surely a dread is kind of the opposite?
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Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/20 22:23:29
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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Basically, yes, but they could have been a Dread before becoming a Blackshield.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/21 00:20:34
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Confessor Of Sins
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Psienesis wrote:Basically, yes, but they could have been a Dread before becoming a Blackshield.
They'd have to be a pretty special case to be allowed to risk a dreadnought in the Deathwatch. The Blood Angels sometimes let a dread that falls to the Black Rage have a coat of black paint with red X markings and kill stuff until it's disabled, but at least they're there to recover the technology.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/21 01:11:00
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit
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Psienesis wrote: also, because Dreads have certain support requirements that the DW cannot always meet (sometimes a Space Marine in the DW will be required to stand vigil over a sector of space from a star-fortress... by himself. For two hundred years.).
I seem to recall there being mention somewhere of the Iron Hands having a pair of Dreadnoughts stationed for centuries guarding a shrine..
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/21 01:35:12
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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I seem to recall there being mention somewhere of the Iron Hands having a pair of Dreadnoughts stationed for centuries guarding a shrine..
Yes, but that has all the support-apparatus that a Chapter possesses, like Chapter Serfs and the like, to maintain them.
The Deathwatch does not have Chapter Serfs. It only recruits Marines from other Chapters to serve in limited-duration stints, and the rare, few Marines that join the DW on a permanent basis. Unlike other Chapters, the Deathwatch does not recruit regular humans and then go through the process of training them, performing the required surgeries and so on and so forth. There are no DW Scouts or Aspirants or anything like that. As is said, "amongst a hundred normal men, none may be fit for the Space Marines. Amongst one hundred Adeptus Astartes, one may be fit for the Deathwatch".
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/21 02:11:51
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Actually, the Deathwatch do have chapter serfs, they're simply not recruited the same way. In both the novel, Deathwatch and the Deathwatch RPG series there are mentions of human serfs preparing marines and tending to various devices. At Watch Fortress Erioch, for example, there is the Longsorrow family bloodline who maintain stewardship over the non-restricted areas of the Watch Fortress. These serfs are brought on in a similar manner as Inquisitorial acolytes. B chance or by being assigned by the Inquisition directly.
As for the original topic, I would argue that unless a Black Shield has proven himself to an obscene degree, to the point where being given the honors of entombment are beyond question, then there would not be a Black Shield dreadnought. The process of becoming a Deathwatch dread is not as simple as becoming a normal dread. The marine in question must agree to remain serving and the marine's chapter must agree to allow the dread to continue to serve. It's not that chapters are send their own dreads to the Deathwatch after they've already been entombed.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/21 02:13:07
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/21 04:28:01
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I could see it based on being the last loyalist dreadnought of a chapter who awoke to find out the rest of his brothers were wiped out or fallen to Chaos.
But I doubt a black shield would be entombed in a dreadnought after the fact.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/21 07:50:20
Subject: Re:Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Yes, um, what I meant was if the Deathwatch has blackshields who were dreadnoughts before becoming a blackshield.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/21 12:52:05
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Ah. In that case, I'd go with no as Dreadnoughts don't usually have the same means of simply hopping on to a ship and heading to a Watch Fortress on their own like a normal Black Shield.
The only way I could see it work would be if the Deathwatch were to find a dreadnought still alive in some long forgotten tomb, its chapter long since destroyed or fallen to chaos.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/21 18:44:33
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Spetulhu wrote: Psienesis wrote:Basically, yes, but they could have been a Dread before becoming a Blackshield.
They'd have to be a pretty special case to be allowed to risk a dreadnought in the Deathwatch. The Blood Angels sometimes let a dread that falls to the Black Rage have a coat of black paint with red X markings and kill stuff until it's disabled, but at least they're there to recover the technology.
There is in BL fluff atleast one Dread serving in DW, either a Lamenter or another chapter that was mostly wiped out by 'nids.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/21 19:25:55
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Yes, but it's not known whether he was brought in as a dread or was entombed while serving in the Deathwatch. Given the descriptions in Rites of Battle, I'd assume the latter.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/21 19:55:22
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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If a chapter long fell to chaos, given nature of chaos would you trust a dread who despite being asleep was exposed to chaos?
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Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/21 21:17:05
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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That's basically the idea of the Black Shields. They're heavily scrutinized and tested by the higher-ups at the Watch Fortress upon their arrival, but all of that is kept classified most of all the chapter involved.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/22 15:06:27
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Khorne Rhino Driver with Destroyer
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jhe90 wrote:If a chapter long fell to chaos, given nature of chaos would you trust a dread who despite being asleep was exposed to chaos?
Weren't the Grey Knights formed from loyalist members of the Traitor Legions? Just because a good part of the chapter fell to Chaos, it does not mean that all members were affected. Quite the contrary, if somebody manages to remain loyal despite their chapter falling, it could be seen as them being more trustworthy than anything.
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What do you call a lasgun with a laser sight? Twin-linked. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/22 15:43:14
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
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Hotrod wrote:jhe90 wrote:If a chapter long fell to chaos, given nature of chaos would you trust a dread who despite being asleep was exposed to chaos?
Weren't the Grey Knights formed from loyalist members of the Traitor Legions? Just because a good part of the chapter fell to Chaos, it does not mean that all members were affected. Quite the contrary, if somebody manages to remain loyal despite their chapter falling, it could be seen as them being more trustworthy than anything.
There's also the fact that some Black Shields are the last surviving members of Chapters that have been utterly wiped out (say the Astral Knights had a couple of Marines in the Deathwatch when the rest of the Chapter died destroying the Necron World Engine), and there's no particular reason not to trust that brother.
There's no good reason why there wouldn't be at least a few Black Shield Dreads in the galaxy, I wouldn't suggest writing fluff assuming there are a lot of them but one wouldn't be out of place.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/22 18:19:59
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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There's no good reason why there wouldn't be at least a few Black Shield Dreads in the galaxy, I wouldn't suggest writing fluff assuming there are a lot of them but one wouldn't be out of place.
This is basically what I'm getting at. There's no reason that the DW doesn't have a small number of Dreads floating about all over the galaxy doing this, that and the other thing, but DW fluff stresses rapid-response strike teams to get in, kill some aliens, seize some xeno tech, and then get the hell out. Dreads have all kinds of transport/logistics problems for those kinds of missions, but that doesn't mean that one can't be standing around in a watch-post somewhere in the arse-end of the galaxy.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/22 18:30:01
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
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Psienesis wrote:There's no good reason why there wouldn't be at least a few Black Shield Dreads in the galaxy, I wouldn't suggest writing fluff assuming there are a lot of them but one wouldn't be out of place.
This is basically what I'm getting at. There's no reason that the DW doesn't have a small number of Dreads floating about all over the galaxy doing this, that and the other thing, but DW fluff stresses rapid-response strike teams to get in, kill some aliens, seize some xeno tech, and then get the hell out. Dreads have all kinds of transport/logistics problems for those kinds of missions, but that doesn't mean that one can't be standing around in a watch-post somewhere in the arse-end of the galaxy.
The Deathwatch maintains Thunderhawk Transporters and (presumably) Stormravens for getting vehicles into and out of combat zones quickly.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/22 18:33:36
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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Yes, but having a bunch of Marines assault-pack up into the T-Hawk or the S-Raven, or climb up some lines is one thing. Trying to winch a 40-ton Dread up into the crew-bay is something else entirely.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/22 18:41:39
Subject: Blackshield Dreadnoughts?
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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AnomanderRake wrote:Hotrod wrote:jhe90 wrote:If a chapter long fell to chaos, given nature of chaos would you trust a dread who despite being asleep was exposed to chaos?
Weren't the Grey Knights formed from loyalist members of the Traitor Legions? Just because a good part of the chapter fell to Chaos, it does not mean that all members were affected. Quite the contrary, if somebody manages to remain loyal despite their chapter falling, it could be seen as them being more trustworthy than anything.
There's also the fact that some Black Shields are the last surviving members of Chapters that have been utterly wiped out (say the Astral Knights had a couple of Marines in the Deathwatch when the rest of the Chapter died destroying the Necron World Engine), and there's no particular reason not to trust that brother.
There's no good reason why there wouldn't be at least a few Black Shield Dreads in the galaxy, I wouldn't suggest writing fluff assuming there are a lot of them but one wouldn't be out of place.
OK true, as trials go, that's serious, but if say a heroic tech marine say sealed the dread vault or somthing then maybe, maybe they could survive unefected down on a warded and fortified level.
Just taint of chaos, once effected hard to shake, are not those exposed more susceptible to it?
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Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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