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Hi. Just wondering if people could give me some good builds for a daemon prince, and whether they are worth it versus dwarves.

Thanks!

I wouldn't take it vs dwarves. The standard build is the nurgle, dragonbane gem, charmed shield, sword of striking, soul feeder, flaming breath, lvl 4 death dude.

If he goes first, you're probably fethed (he's getting two rounds of shooting on you). If you go first, he *might* live, depending on how many cannons or stone throwers he has. But chances are he has a lot. And if he's smart enough to not make them flaming vs WoC, then you're dp is *probably* worm food. Each stone thrower/cannon has about a 50% chance of hitting and wounding him for d6 wounds. Charmed shield will block one, but after that you're relying on your 1/3 ward save. Which is not good.

I'd rather go with the disc lord build, with the talisman of preservation, crown of command, third eye of tzeentch, and whatever other goodies you want to throw on him.

But watch out for dwarven lords. They can be kitted out so that even a chaos lord cannot take them in single combat. So avoid engaging that block with your lord.

Truthfully I think dwarves are WoC worst match-up. Armour save ignoring gunlines backed up by cheaper melee units that are just as good in combat. Pretty nasty :/


One advantage of the daemon prince is that if he does survive and you get a purple sun off on his flank the dwarves are fethed. That is risky as hell though. But sometimes against good dwarves I feel like it's what you gotta go for....

Honestly, the Charmed Shield may or may not even block a single Warmachine hit. When I play a WoC DP, I assume he has the Shield, and I always target him first with Crossbows. That eats the Shield with a hit that was unlikely to wound in the first place, and then my Cannon and/or Stone Throwers only have to deal with the 5+ ward. If that's not an option, I will aim with my one flaming cannon first to go ahead and eat the shield, then fire with the non-flaming cannon. If needed, then go with the stone throwers. When playing Dwarfs against WoC, I'm actually kind of happy if my opponent has fielded a DP and a Chimaera. That's something like 750 points that I should reliably kill first turn.

Can you screen the DP with Hounds? How does that affect shooting with Cannons?

 pantheralegionnaire wrote:
Can you screen the DP with Hounds? How does that affect shooting with Cannons?

The cannon ball bounces through the hounds (killing one) and into the daemon prince.
Anything that could stop the ball, is so expensive that you don't want it shot at either. (like screening a prince with a hellcannon).
Obstacles do stop the first ball (being destroyed in the process), as does being totally out of sight.

-Matt

 pantheralegionnaire wrote:
Can you screen the DP with Hounds? How does that affect shooting with Cannons?

Monsters and Monstrous Cavalry can both block a cannonball if the shot doesn't do enough damage to kill a model. The problem is that a player with a cannon would be pretty happy to have a shot that could kill both a Skullcrusher or Chimaera and then have a chance to kill a DP. Skullcrushers would be decent cannon screens if they had a ward save. The Chimaera isn't really a good choice against Dwarfs because at least one of their cannons will be Flaming.

Everyone always forgets that WoC also has about the best MI in the game. Ogres who can use marks. And AHW Trolls. 2 rows of TZ Ogres are a pretty effective cannon shield. The Trolls aren't as good cuz flaming will likely exist.

There's only a 44% chance he'll kill both ogres. And there's a 30% chance one ward will block. And they're very solid units.

 DukeRustfield wrote:
Everyone always forgets that WoC also has about the best MI in the game. Ogres who can use marks. And AHW Trolls. 2 rows of TZ Ogres are a pretty effective cannon shield. The Trolls aren't as good cuz flaming will likely exist.

There's only a 44% chance he'll kill both ogres. And there's a 30% chance one ward will block. And they're very solid units.

Slightly better than that really. 5/6th wound, 5/6th fail saves, 1/2 roll high enough to kill him. 37% chance to kill one, 12% chance to kill 2.
But the real problem is that dwarfs show up with more than just a cannon or two. You're likely to face an organ gun or two, and some crossbows.
A unit of 20 xbows are going to drop an ogre, and that's the problem. With an ogre down, the cannon might be able to chip in a shot that only needs to go through 1 ogre. It's also likely that you'll want to be 4 wide with the ogres to screen, and be effective in combat.
Really, it's target saturation. If you're going prince, bring the ogres of tzeench, and also pack a good number of other monsters. He won't be able to shoot them all, and if he has to spend a turn firing everything at the ogres to try and get a shot on the prince, then everything else is surviving.

I mean he has to shoot at something. If you're choosing things to sacrifice, TZ Ogres are pretty solid.

Don't forget that a Tzeentch Warshrine rocks a 3+ ward save and has 5 wounds. You could almost pick up two for the cost of a Chimera w/ regen.

The only disadvantage is it cannot keep up with the DP's movement. Plus, the Daemon Prince isn't considered a large target. Stick a pack of dogs in front. too.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the DP because it's far too many points invested in a single model, but it's also the most efficient way to get a murderous combat char and level 4 caster.

Running two warshrines means you can run two within flying distance of one another. Move both up. Your opponent will be forced to deal with the warshrines, or you can zig-zag your way up with a 3+ ward 5W bodyguard until you find that prime opportunity. Either way, it'll serve as enough distraction for the rest of your army to wreck havoc.