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If you have a rules problem with me taking Heralds in my other FOCs please realize I can and everyone says I can, if you still have a problem please stop arguing about it in this thread. If it's wrong and I can only take 1 then I'll just take 2 more FOC detachments as I have 6 Troops.


HQ
Blue Scribes
Herald Of Tzeentch (LvL 3 , Exalted Locus of Conjuration)
Herald of Tzeentch ( Lvl 3, Exalted Locus of Conjuration)
Herald of Tzeentch ( LvL 3 , Exalted, Portaglyph)
Herald of Tzeentch (LvL 3)
Troops
11 Pink Horrors
11 Pink Horrors
16 Pink Horrors
H. Support
Soul Grinder (Tzeentch, Phlegm)


HQ
Herald Of Tzeentch (LvL 3 )
Herald of Tzeentch ( Lvl 3)

Troops
11 Pink Horrors
11 Pink Horrors
16 Pink Horrors
H. Support
Soul Grinder (Tzeentch, Phlegm)
Soul Grinder (Tzeentch, Phlegm)



Fortification
Bastion w/ Void Shield

Total 1996 ( Ugh I think it's right its late and I am tired)

Total Power Dice = 32 + D6
Total Flicker Fire = 12
Total Summons = 12 ( A note you don't have to actually take all of the summons you can roll and if you get a witchfire power, take the summons)
Total Actual Rolls on Daemonology = 18 ( You have to take the Primary Power of your God you get automatically so if you want to have summons you have to replace a spell )

Blue Scribes provide a free Daemon Spell
Portaglyph Provides it as well


The best usage though is for the Two guys that give +1 to their Psychic Attacks to actually go all in with Divination.

So in fact you lose 6 rolls on Daemonlogy, you want them to get Divination. Cause you want to make it so they both hopefully get Fortune and can cast that on a Soul Grinder, then hit it with a Cursed Earth and now you have something that has a 3+ Invulnerable Save thats rerollable on a 1. And then you can Grimoire the other one for a 2+.

Also with Divination you can blast off with Flickering fire and be a gunboat.

Possible further changes

Actually Dropping a Herald to having only 5, honestly losing 3 Warp isn't going to hurt me and I can use the points to Add 10 More Pink Horrors to other squads and that takes 2 Squads up to 16 So I only lose 1 Warp Charge that way but 3 Spells.

I may consider dropping the Bastion and going for just a straight Aegis defense line but having a LOS blocker is pretty nice and being able to position the Grndrs there would be helpful.

Why do you have Soul Grinders again?

Because Two AV13 5 Attacks on Charge Battle Cannon wielding Monstrosities with one with a 2+ and the other a 3 + rerollable Invulnerable is fething terrifying running at you.

Looks like fun, and makes sense, while eldar summoning daemons is total BS.

I think I should get that bastion thing with void shields but I don't know where to find it. It's cities of death isnt it?

That void shield bastion thing will be in the rule book when it comes out. I think its currently in the esculation/stronhold book?

Boy this sounds scary. Do the summoned demons add to your warp charge?

We don't know yet, though they should.

Assuming they do, this sounds scary. Especially if they too can summon demons.

Lol, summoned daemons who summon yet more daemons and ect.

Probably won't be so. Hell why not? Gw likes to sell loads and loads of daemons, EVERYTHING MAKES MORE DAEMONS!

We will have to call it the Rabbitstar?

Binary Fission capable demons breed like rabbits on the battlefield at an accelerated pace.

May have to try converting an army like this.

Do the pink horrors get to choose BRB disciplines though?

Fixed the Original OP

Going to update this as this seems the most abusive as you can get:
Detachment 1

Herald of Tzeentch Level 3 - Exalted Gift - Portaglyph
Herald Of Tzeentch Level 3
Herald Of Tzeentch Level 3

Troops
17 Pink Horrors
17 Pink Horrors

H. Support

Soul Grinder w/ Tzeentch, Phlegm
Soulgrinder w/ Tzeentch , Phlegm

Total - 961


Herald of Tzeentch Level 3 -
Herald Of Tzeentch Level 3
Herald Of Tzeentch Level 3

Troops
17 Pink Horrors
17 Pink Horrors

H. Support

Soul Grinder w/ Tzeentch, Phlegm
Soulgrinder w/ Tzeentch , Phlegm

Total - 931

Bastion w/ Void shields 100?

Total Army - 1992

Power Dice 30 + D6

With 4 Soul Grinders , hopefully you'll get at least 1 Cursed Earth Off. You'll get at least 2 Possessions and 2 Sacrifices.

First turn Hide if you don't go first. If you do go first March Forward w/ Soul Grinders give them a 4 plus cover save. Summon Heralds w/ Master Level 2 First, then Possess the Daemons that have it with Lords of Change.

What daemons you summon depend on what your opponent has , It's probably difficult though to kill 4 Soul Grinders w/ a 4+ and a reroll 1s Armour 13 , plus kill the Bloodthirsters or whatever you summon. I wouldn't summon any Great Unclean ones until you get to their deployment. It's best to Summon either a Lord of Change or a Keeper of Secrets or a Bloodthirster.

Units you want to summon on the first turn (my choice)
Anything with Beasts rule
Anything with a Jetpack Special Rule
Bloodcrushers
Plague Drones

You can if you want also summon Slaanesh Heralds that come with a Chariot.

IDK, possession kills the psycher(s) which isn't a very good trade off imo.

Also why not free off 205pts for eldrad? He spawns more WC and gives you +4 off the bat!

I wouldn't take Eldrad for this at all that doesn't... that would.. that would make it a unbound army :(. I would call trading a 95 point model for a 225 point model that is a Flying Monstrous Creature Level 2 Psyker, really good. Or a Bloodthirster. or even a Keeper of Secrets. Although I'd take the Bloodthirster so he could run, then use that jetpack move he'd get but Keeper of Secrets would be a Level 1 Psyker with Access to telepathy ( I think that's the other discipline) they get is pretty good but a chance roll to get the Invisibility spell and you don't get to fly into someones Deployment zone on the 2nd turn and start summoning demons.

If you trade Heralds for Lords of Change you are not actually losing a Psyker. Your not gaining more Psychic Ability but are losing 1 Warp Charge though.

The Real benefit though to Lord of Change is if it rolls well it can actually get Possession. Now you may think well that gak sucks. Wait though, it can be come possessed by ANOTHER Lord of Change or a Bloodthirster.

There's no restriction as far as I am aware of a Lord of Change in combat turning into a Bloodthirster.

If things go well and you get 2 Sacrifice off which honestly you should, you have 30 dice and Perils honestly doesn't matter for Brotherhood of Psykers because who cares if you Perils and manage to summon say Lords of Change.

The Spells you want on your Pink Horrors are pretty much
Sacrifice
Cursed Earth
Incursion
Possession

You shouldn't be Possessing your Pink Horrors if their huge groups or at least not starting off.

Ok, I'm just calling it as I saw it.

But by your logic it does sound juicy!

Yeah I think the Bastion w/ Void Shields is good just to not only hide behind and in ( you can hide inside and behind the building).

Functionally I don't think people realize something but there is an actual 8% chance that if you cast Cursed Earth and get the result that improves Daemonology, the entire army can have a 2+ rerollable that is all ones that are Tzeentch.

Also that's not including the Grimoire that you can get.

The Bastion can only take a single Void Shield. Not bad, but not overly powerful either. A lot depends on what your opponent takes. From my experience, Bastions get hammered pretty quick. YMMV.

You will need Stronghold Assault as there are no fortifications in the rulebook.

Try it out and see if the psychic phase works out. Right now, I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around getting these powers off. The default summoning isn't too difficult but I am curious to see if how easy/difficult it is to get some of these powers off. We played yesterday and never got off Vortex (DA Librarian trying to cast it).

Very curious to see how Demon psychics work out.

IThe Bastion is there to stop you from getting shot at with everything on the first turn and give you some ability to hide out of the way. It also protects you against Mass fire power from wiping your units. That's its only purpose really. To stop you from getting alpha striked off the board you need two good turns of summons then it's over. By the 2nd turn your Power level gets up to 40 and it goes down hill from there.

t works pretty well actually, I messed around with it in a broken Vassal and then we did some substitutions. YOU WILL dominate the Psychic phase. There's almost no army except unbound that comes close. If your opponent has 1 psyker , its over you have 30+ dispel dice. Just throw 10 dice at whatever they cast and shut them down. Not even Eldar can stop this because you have so many dice.

Here's the problem , functionally yes it's amazing. The giant limiter is in fact MONEY.
Incusrion - Everytime you cast this if you wanted to have all the possible summons or just 2 it's 100 to 120. 60 if you just have one unit you can summon.

Sacrifice - 20 or more if you want to have choices but your always going for Heralds of Tzeentch or the Herald w/ Chariot of Slaanesh so again 40.

Summoning - 40 or more depending on what units you want. You have a lot of choices.

Possession- 50 or more


Every single time you cast it. I had one game where we did incursion a few times and possession that' straight up an additional 500$.

It is in fact a great army and it's difficult to deal with just because 4 Soul Grinders or Even 3 puts the pressure immediately on your opponent. You also get some really great shooting not a lot of Anti Tank, but doesn't matter you can summon things that will kill tanks dead.

Power Dice 30 + D6

I guess that this was not intended by GW.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Power Dice 30 + D6

I guess that this was not intended by GW.

I'm still actually working on the list but one of the "unintended" side effects of this army is that Flickering Fire, which as it works now doesn't really work and no one understand it is kind of broken right now.

Why? Because its a witchfire power and if you succeed over the total number of successes you get precision shots with it.

All told the army can easily cast Flickering fire Level 4 6 Times and Level 3 Twice for a total of 33 D6 ST5 shots which if you just average is like 99 ST5 shots.

The Level 4 can be shot by a BS 4 model
So I have to retool the army to get the maximum number of squads, add in the Locus that gives them ST6 and maintain the high Power Dice count.

The downside is that you can only cast Witchfire once per squad if it has a Herald, but if you know you need overwhelming fire power you cna have them leave the squad in the movement phase then all fire witchfire.

In order to fire witch fire 5 Times w/ 4 Levels you need 20 fire dice and that would be 20D6 ST6 hits if they had a Locus.

So no only can you summon you can blast the absolute dogcrap out of someone. Plus if you roll well those shots can be precision. Add in that you can summon more and more Psychic Levels with Sacrifice, Possession, and Summon. Which if Tzeentch also allows them to cast FLickering Fire and the summoned heralds can have that +1 ST to Shooting attacks or a Level 2 and it's pretty good.

Optimally the order would be to do this on the first turn - Cursed Earth , Cursed Earth then start casting your Sacrifices then Summon a Greater Daemon w/ Possession, Nominate a large squad w/ Grimoire if neccessary. No fateweaver but they still have a save if you get cursed earth off. Then in subsequent turns divide the dice between Flickering Fire and more Summons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Final List Finished

HQ
Herald Of Tzeentch (LvL 3 , Exalted Locus of Conjuration)
Herald of Tzeentch ( Lvl 3, Exalted Locus of Conjuration)
Herald of Tzeentch ( LvL 3, Grimiore)
Troops
12 Pink Horrors
12 Pink Horrors
17 Pink Horrors
H. Support
Soul Grinder (Tzeentch, Phlegm)


HQ
Herald Of Tzeentch (LvL 3 )
Herald of Tzeentch ( Lvl 3)
Herald of Tzeentch ( LvL 3)
Troops
12 Pink Horrors
12 Pink Horrors
17 Pink Horrors
H. Support
Soul Grinder (Tzeentch, Phlegm)
Soul Grinder (Tzeentch, Phlegm)



Fortification
Bastion w/ Void Shield

Total 1993

Total Power Dice = 32 + D6
Total Flicker Fire = 12 : Amount needed to fire all 12 Flicker Fire 46 :
Total Possible amount : 8D6 ST 6 @ BS4 , 40 D6 ST5 @ BS3
Total Summons = 12
Total Actual Rolls on Daemonology = 18 ( You have to take the Primary Power of your God you get automatically so if you want to have summons you have to replace a spell you roll, which will of course be any of the Witchfire)
Oh and it has SoulGrinders.

I mean if your goal is to just for abuse of psychic phase at 2k run

fateweaver
6 lvl 3 heralds of tzeentch
1 lvl 1 herald of tzeentch

6 units of 17 horrors.

total 1986

powerdice 41+d6

eversor21 wrote:
I mean if your goal is to just for abuse of psychic phase at 2k run

fateweaver
6 lvl 3 heralds of tzeentch
1 lvl 1 herald of tzeentch

6 units of 17 horrors.

total 1986

powerdice 41+d6

I am trying to do a Battleforged list in order to secure objectives. Also, Fateweaver while good isn't that great in the list as he's to much a investment.

With Eldar you can still get about 26 dice at roughly 900 points. So if you're not careful, can ruin your day :p

 wuestenfux wrote:

Power Dice 30 + D6

I guess that this was not intended by GW.

Why? Because they don't play test anything? Funny this is thought up in what a day, and GW has a year or two and they couldn't think this up? They should have seen this as soon as they started making the rules.

 noghri wrote:
With Eldar you can still get about 26 dice at roughly 900 points. So if you're not careful, can ruin your day :p

Not really Conjuration spells require natural 6s to stop and you have to equal their successes you can dump more dice into your powers and get more successes, plus I don't think that's a Battleforged army.
Not sure how your getting 26 at 900.

I'd have to do the math but I think the Math comes out to a reliable 6 + dispel takes 3 times as many dice if you want a stop a successful level 3. So if I rolled 8 dice on a 4+ , and had a 50%, with 4 successes, you'd need to roll 3 times that or 24 dice to get the same odds or better as me in order to dispel and ensure you dispelled it.

Someone would have to do the math, I'm not good with that type of math.

2 Seers +10 warlocks in your main force and a maxed Shadow Council (5 Iyanden Seers, sorry but cannot recall the name) from Iyanden in the Allied Detachment. You put a Seer in a Jetbike with the Mantle of Laughing God and try to get the Vortex power. Suicide trip to the bastion and throw all the 26 dice for the power. Fun assured xD. Btw, I think I can only dispel with the 1d6 pool, not the other 26.

 noghri wrote:
2 Seers +10 warlocks in your main force and a maxed Shadow Council (5 Iyanden Seers, sorry but cannot recall the name) from Iyanden in the Allied Detachment. You put a Seer in a Jetbike with the Mantle of Laughing God and try to get the Vortex power. Suicide trip to the bastion and throw all the 26 dice for the power. Fun assured xD. Btw, I think I can only dispel with the 1d6 pool, not the other 26.

No you get the other 26, that's interesting but honestly the bastion is just there for "just in case". It's not like you blow it up , win game. I'm just going to use it hide behind / within if when I don't go first. I tried it out it's pretty effective. Soul Grinders w/ a 4+ and reroll ones is very very very difficult to kill.

I'm not to concerned with Seer Stars, you can shut down fortune pretty easily and that's the main thing. Also, Warp Fire can be precision shots if you roll high enough so you can pick out any characters that are nuisances.

That doesn't concern me, what bothers me with this list is Shadow in the Warp.


Squads of Psykers suck now, you can't try to cast a spell multiple times so they all have to be seperate in order to fully utitlize themselves. Like fi you have 4 Fortunes and their in one squad they get to try to cast fortune ONCE.

The era of banned lists in a competitive environment has begun.

ajsnips44 wrote:
The era of banned lists in a competitive environment has begun.

The improved list is a little better more Psychic Powers and if you get off Portaglyph you get 33 + D6, so on average 36 Power points which is enough to attempt to cast 6 level 6s but really you want to cast 4 Level 3 @ 7 dice to ensure you get your FMCs.

Well I did state the main disadvantage to this army is literally your pocket book and how much money you can spend.

If you go first, you should be able to summon literally 4 Level 3 spells no problem with the dice available to you. 2 of which can be FMC Psykers , 2 of which can be either more troops or really 6 Bloodcrushers . If you roll well, but really you want to Sacrifice as many times as you can as it ups your chance for Possession. If you have Possession that's the LAST spell you go for.

You have to cast Cursed Earth first though, as it stops deep strike.

Also thank you very much for the compliment.

There are some caveats to the army for example. I think the FMCs come in gliding so that would mean you'd have to land your second turn then charge your 3rd. REally good for Lords of Change , VERY BAD for Blood thirsters.

Might be worth fitting in a couple of squads of min nurgling bases for infiltrating super-scoring goodness - have them infiltrate and go to ground on objectives in cover, for 2+ cover saves - difficult to dislodge without wasting firepower that would otherwise be targeting your summoners. Means you start ahead, rather than behind, on the mission/scoring aspect.

Of course, that would ruin your fluffy Tzeentch theme

I don't have any problem with objectives, being able to summon a squad 12 inches away then run them onto a objective is pretty easy, plus you know you can have Calvary in the form of Slaanesh so it's pretty easy. I haven't summoned any Nurglings just becasue it's not worth it over all. I've stuck to Plaguebearers , Seekers of Slaanesh, and more Pink Horrors.


If there was a way I could figure out how to get everything divisible by 9 I would. I kind of like playing powerful fluff lists so I've tried to stay exclusively to Tzeentch.

Wel that and with cursed earth up there's a 8% chance to get a entire army that has a 2+ rerollable. It hasn't happened yet but still there's a chance.

Thank you though, I had not considered nurglings.

I've had 5 games 3 Vassal, 2 real. It won every time with minimal effort. It's to hard to deal with 3 Soul Grinders and getting 2+ FMCs on the first turn. Although 3 of the games were with a previous list and not one that I optimized for Flickering Fire. It's just to much gak to deal with being able to just say feth it and start throwing out 2D6 ST5 and ST6 hits from 12 units is kind of ridiculous.