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Looking at the codexes basic troop Srtike Squads, they have:
Psyk-out grenades,
Preferred Enemy (Daemons),
Brotherhood of Psykers,
New Hammerhand,
Nemesis weapons have Daemonbane,
The Aegis,
Free Psilencers (wounding al Daemons on a 4+ or better)
and psybolt ammunition.

Inquisitors, lvl 1 can take sanctic for 55 points.

Coteaz, lvl 2 Can roll on sanctic twice. 100 points

Both get the primaris in addition (obviously)

Vehicles and Dedicated Transports and Dreadnaughts and Flyers and Dreadknights all generating WC points

And virtually every other unit designed to be good against Daemons,
can even a non-tailored list put an end to exponential daemon lists?

Since the Daemon factory requires DS to bring in summoned daemons, laying warp quake in obvious landing zones could delay at worst and destroy at best.

We don't know if there is even a demon summoning factory list that works well, seeing as we don't have any FAQs and don't know which psykers can access which disciplines.

if you want to stop a deamon factory take coteaz and 100 units of henchmen with 2 henchmen and one psyker

that is 102 WC + D6 per turn

not sure a lot of summoning will pass that

Actually they might. For you to counter summoning reliably, you'll want to roll three times as many dice as they do. Summon lists have gone up to 38+ WC, so even with 102 WC you won't have enough to counter all of them.

Besides, it's stupid to try and counter the summoning as Grey Knights when you have such awesome anti-Daemon sanctic powers at your disposal.

Though rather than being the cure to the problem, I think Grey Knights will only make the problem worse. Allies are permitted for every faction now, so the ultimate army is going to be Chaos Daemons primary CAD with a Grey Knights secondary CAD. The extra psykers will fuel the Daemons with even more Warp Charges while still being able to fight as actual units.

The best anti-demon power is shooting the demons psykers with a lot of guns. Lol.


Again, aren't these demon factory lists making a lot of assumptions? We aren't sure everything in the codex can take the demonology discipline right? People are just assuming that.

Kyutaru wrote:
Actually they might. For you to counter summoning reliably, you'll want to roll three times as many dice as they do. Summon lists have gone up to 38+ WC, so even with 102 WC you won't have enough to counter all of them.

Besides, it's stupid to try and counter the summoning as Grey Knights when you have such awesome anti-Daemon sanctic powers at your disposal.

Though rather than being the cure to the problem, I think Grey Knights will only make the problem worse. Allies are permitted for every faction now, so the ultimate army is going to be Chaos Daemons primary CAD with a Grey Knights secondary CAD. The extra psykers will fuel the Daemons with even more Warp Charges while still being able to fight as actual units.

We're sorry Mr. Inquisitor sir, all we wanted to do was bring Draigo back from the warp, we swear! The 300 Pink Horrors are just... an unexpected side effect.

Narrative Forged.

Super Newb wrote:
Again, aren't these demon factory lists making a lot of assumptions? We aren't sure everything in the codex can take the demonology discipline right? People are just assuming that.

Nope, the rulebook flat out specifies they can. The only assumptions being made are by the naysayers who think otherwise about whether the rulebook is allowed to do that.

I would totally let a GK player use Malefic to summon a Greater Daemon... and then use Draigo instead. That'd be awesome.

Sorry, had to get that out. What are those Strike Squads with the Teleporters called? Those guy would do well. Cast Warp Quake, 'Port 30" into his face, lay down two flame templates and a ton of Storm Bolter shots. You can spread out the no-go zone a ton with 2" spacing, using multiple squads would do even more.

Kyutaru wrote:

Super Newb wrote:
Again, aren't these demon factory lists making a lot of assumptions? We aren't sure everything in the codex can take the demonology discipline right? People are just assuming that.

Nope, the rulebook flat out specifies they can. The only assumptions being made are by the naysayers who think otherwise about whether the rulebook is allowed to do that.

What do you mean? Is this the same logic that gives everything in the GK codex the option for Santic powers (including Rhinos)?

 jifel wrote:
I would totally let a GK player use Malefic to summon a Greater Daemon... and then use Draigo instead. That'd be awesome.

I'm almost surprised this isn't one of the sanctic powers. Fluffy too. Look out for this as a one-off 3WC power in a future GK codex update.

What are those Strike Squads with the Teleporters called? Those guy would do well. Cast Warp Quake, 'Port 30" into his face, lay down two flame templates and a ton of Storm Bolter shots. You can spread out the no-go zone a ton with 2" spacing, using multiple squads would do even more.

Interceptors. This and the general template buff (flame every level in a ruin per shot, no escape on open topped vehicles) makes them much better!

Inquisitor from Codex: Inquisition with level I: 55 points
Two Henchmen squads (2 acolythes & 1 psiker): 2x 18 points

Equals a full FOC, 3 warp charges and one roll on the Malefic table

Endless fun!!!

Super Newb wrote:
What do you mean? Is this the same logic that gives everything in the GK codex the option for Santic powers (including Rhinos)?

GKs are a different case, they have an ancient codex so they only have specified powers. Their codex was before we had disciplines. Their units don't have the ability to generate psychic powers unless a FAQ has since claimed otherwise, so they never roll on a discipline. Obviously if there is something giving them the ability to roll on any of the rulebook psychic disciplines, that something would most likely not have Rhinos listed as what can do it.

Chaos Daemons do not share this flaw as their codex was updated more recently. They do have the ability to generate powers from disciplines they have access to.

Kyutaru wrote:

Super Newb wrote:
What do you mean? Is this the same logic that gives everything in the GK codex the option for Santic powers (including Rhinos)?

GKs are a different case, they have an ancient codex so they only have specified powers. Their codex was before we had disciplines. Their units don't have the ability to generate psychic powers unless a FAQ has since claimed otherwise, so they never roll on a discipline. Obviously if there is something giving them the ability to roll on any of the rulebook psychic disciplines, that something would most likely not have Rhinos listed as what can do it.

Chaos Daemons do not share this flaw as their codex was updated more recently. They do have the ability to generate powers from disciplines they have access to.

They who? Every psyker? Only some? I really don't know here I am asking out of ignorance.

Coteaz, for his ability to have his units take free shots at anyone who deep strikes within 12".
Interceptor squads and strike squads to spam Warp Quake.

Use the warp quake to force daemons to:
A) Die outright
B) Get forced into reserves for another turn.
C) Deep strike within 12" of Coteaz, and have the purifier blob light them up.

Then take an Inquisitor with Null Rod. Totally hoses those invisibility shattered earth buffed deathstars.

-Matt

Super Newb wrote:
They who? Every psyker? Only some? I really don't know here I am asking out of ignorance.

Every Chaos Daemon psyker has the ability to generate powers from one or more disciplines. It's in every one of their boxes.

Also, please don't pretend to be asking out of ignorance. You've been debating this exact thing in the other forum and by your own posts have stated this already.

Were pink horrors able to generate a power randomly or was it automatically the shooting power?

I agree that as long as we have no FAQ, we dont really know who can do what anyway (so lets hope we will have some soon...)

sleekid wrote:
Were pink horrors able to generate a power randomly or was it automatically the shooting power?

I agree that as long as we have no FAQ, we dont really know who can do what anyway (so lets hope we will have some soon...)

Pink Horrors are able to generate powers randomly in the 6th edition codex. In previous codex versions they had only the shooting power.

FAQs do often clear things up. For example, I just read that the 5th edition FAQ for the Grey Knights allows a few of their units to roll for disciplines (so no, Rhinos can't use Sanctic).

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
At the moment, the only units in the GK codex able to roll for powers are the GK Librarian, Coteaz, and the generic Inquisitors that buy the Psyker upgrade. That is per the GK 5th Ed FAQ.

SJ

Super Newb wrote:

Kyutaru wrote:

Super Newb wrote:
Again, aren't these demon factory lists making a lot of assumptions? We aren't sure everything in the codex can take the demonology discipline right? People are just assuming that.

Nope, the rulebook flat out specifies they can. The only assumptions being made are by the naysayers who think otherwise about whether the rulebook is allowed to do that.

What do you mean? Is this the same logic that gives everything in the GK codex the option for Santic powers (including Rhinos)?

The 7th BRB clearly states that if you have a set power in you profile, like basically all GK unit entries. You cannot generate book powers. Pink horrors don't have a set power and already can roll, most people just choose to go for their primaris but now that chaos focus is a new rule they can always have flickering fire in addition to their roll on divination, malefic or tzeentch powers. Pink horrors are awesome in a we write horribly imbalanced rules kind of way.

jifel wrote:I would totally let a GK player use Malefic to summon a Greater Daemon... and then use Draigo instead. That'd be awesome.

Sorry, had to get that out. What are those Strike Squads with the Teleporters called? Those guy would do well. Cast Warp Quake, 'Port 30" into his face, lay down two flame templates and a ton of Storm Bolter shots. You can spread out the no-go zone a ton with 2" spacing, using multiple squads would do even more.

Interceptors. Trouble is you need to shunt first so they can then deny that more important warp quake and your left dangling in the wind. Still a solid tactic though your gonna want to throw a lot of dice at that power.

It's not just pink horrors that are awesome. Runepriests apparently have devastating powers too that haven't been updated. I could easily see them shutting down an entire Daemon Factory by themselves.

If pink horror summoning cheese is allowed by the Rules as Written, then spamming Runepriest denials is just as fair.

EDIT: So apparently the 7th edition FAQs have been released and the most of the Grey Knight champions and Librarians can now roll for powers. Every other Grey Knight unit gains access to sanctic powers, but only SPECIFIC powers like Hammerhand or Cleansing Flame etc. As for Runepriests, they are no longer awesome and only generate powers from Biomancy, Daemonology, Divination, and Telekinesis.

Kyutaru wrote:

Super Newb wrote:
They who? Every psyker? Only some? I really don't know here I am asking out of ignorance.

Every Chaos Daemon psyker has the ability to generate powers from one or more disciplines. It's in every one of their boxes.

Also, please don't pretend to be asking out of ignorance. You've been debating this exact thing in the other forum and by your own posts have stated this already.

Lol. Now you're on my a hole list. I've never seen the demon codex. I've never played demons in 6th edition. I literally don't know what is in there. Now you are telling me that every single psyker assumingly including brotherhood of psykers has it in the demon codex. I'll take your word for even if you are mistaken with what I've said on another thread. And maybe I shouldn't because you either just said a lie about me intentionally or are a sloppy reader.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

Kyutaru wrote:

Super Newb wrote:
Again, aren't these demon factory lists making a lot of assumptions? We aren't sure everything in the codex can take the demonology discipline right? People are just assuming that.

Nope, the rulebook flat out specifies they can. The only assumptions being made are by the naysayers who think otherwise about whether the rulebook is allowed to do that.

What do you mean? Is this the same logic that gives everything in the GK codex the option for Santic powers (including Rhinos)?

The 7th BRB clearly states that if you have a set power in you profile, like basically all GK unit entries. You cannot generate book powers. Pink horrors don't have a set power and already can roll, most people just choose to go for their primaris but now that chaos focus is a new rule they can always have flickering fire in addition to their roll on divination, malefic or tzeentch powers. Pink horrors are awesome in a we write horribly imbalanced rules kind of way.

Yikes. So the short answer is no, not the same "logic" lol, it's actually clear they can. Horrors indeed lol

you guys, GK's do not have warp quake anymore just FYI

they get the +2 HH and banishment, thats it. well and force OFC


Automatically Appended Next Post:
demon factory isnt that good of a list anyways, everyones freaking out about the bat reps, where not only did demons make every single roll, even the 12% chance to suceed ones, and not peril once, but they tied the game... hardly somthing to be uber worried about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also, at the moment,

every character and HQ choice that is a pysker gets to roll on tables, but lost all set powers

cept for some exceptions like thrawn, and mordrak, which come with +2 HH and banishment just like GK:SS's


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also note, that despite losing warp quake, the interceptors (my fave unit! I have been using the shunt punch for years, FYI that name is MINE!!! copyright!)

but even without warp quake, you are still putting lots of stuff in their deploument zone, which is already crowded, so their sumoning is only range 12", which means you get board control, and they still mishap all the time anyways since there should be no where to place stuff