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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/27 13:11:40
Subject: Psyker Units
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Confessor Of Sins
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The terminology is very confusing.
Psyker and Psyker Unit refers to any unit with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerors rule. Why this talk about units?
What happens if a psyker _model_ joins another unit? The resulting unit does not have the Psyker rule, only one model has. Page 166 (Independent Character) specifically says that special rules are not conferred upon the unit it joins unless it specifically says so.
Does it still generate Warp Charges? What Mastery Level is the unit?
I'm not sure why they changed the way they refer to psykers to 'units' instead of 'models'.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/27 15:14:04
Subject: Psyker Units
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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Did Independent Characters lose the Rule stating they are members of the Unit they Joined?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/27 15:14:13
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/27 15:19:31
Subject: Psyker Units
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Confessor Of Sins
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They still have that.
They count for members of the unit for all rules purposes, but do not confer their own rules upon the unit they join.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/27 15:31:31
Subject: Psyker Units
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Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot
Newcastle, NSW ,Australia
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But the model does not lose the psyker special rule. Even if not all the models have a special rule, it does not stop the unit having the rule for identification purposes.
It's like saying that unit of space marines has a melta gun. Only one guy has it but you say the squad has it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/27 15:45:23
Subject: Psyker Units
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Confessor Of Sins
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The model has the rules, but the unit doesn't (because it specifically says they don't transfer).
And even if it did, what if there are 2 psykers attached to say a Tactical Squad.
A unit only generates Warp Charges once, and you have to determine its Mastery Level....
How do we do it with units with multiple psykers?
Does a Warlock Council only generate 1 warp charge regardless of how many warlocks are in it?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/27 15:47:35
Subject: Psyker Units
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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The Trigger in question is simply 'a Unit containing a Model with X does Y' so the rest of the Models in the Unit are not required to also have the Special Rule of X. In this situation, any Psyker which Joins another Unit will turn that Unit into a 'Psyker Unit' on the grounds that the Unit contains one Model with the Psyker Special Rule and therefore Triggers the Rule explaining how Psyker Unit's function. The only conclusion we can come to would be to use the same Rules for determining Master Level and other factors as if the Unit always contained the Psyker for the duration that the Psyker is present in the Unit. How that works, I am not entirely sure as I have yet to review that section in any depth, but those instructions would be the ones we follow to determine the new Psyker Units strengths and weaknesses.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/27 15:50:59
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/27 15:49:14
Subject: Psyker Units
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Confessor Of Sins
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It does not say 'A unit containing a model with the Psyker rule'.
It says; ( pg 22, first column, 3 paragraph)
For the purpose of all rules, the term 'Psyker' and 'Psyker Unit' refer to any unit with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerors special rules.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/27 15:53:54
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/27 15:58:44
Subject: Psyker Units
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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Ah, this old problem again:
How will we ever evoke a Rule which states 'a unit containing the Special Rule X' if Special Rules are found on Models?
Personally my answer is simple:
As Models are part of a Unit, any Special Rule found on a Model is considered to be a Special Rule which the Unit contains.
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8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/27 16:15:17
Subject: Psyker Units
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Confessor Of Sins
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Of course, that's _probably_ intended.
But now what if the units contains more than 1 attached psyker.
All the rules specify units only.
Do units composed of more than 1 psyker only generate warp charges for one? And at which Mastery Level (if they have mixed levels).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/27 16:58:11
Subject: Psyker Units
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Essentially what you're saying is if Abaddon, Kharn, and Ahriman decide to get together and form the Avengers, how many warp charges do they get?
Honestly, since ICs generally count as their own unit when not attached to a unit, I'd count them as their own unit for the purpose of generating warp charges. A Brotherhood of Sorcerers still only generates 1 because the entire unit is a single psyker, while multiple independent Psykers would generate at their mastery level.
All the rules concerning this matter have already been quoted. If that's not enough to sway you on how they should be played, there's literally nothing else that can be offered to you without making gak up.
So topic resolved!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/27 22:10:35
Subject: Psyker Units
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Confessor Of Sins
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Well so far there's been a lot of interpretation, but not much actual rules quoted.
Treating ICs like separate units for generating warp charges is fine and dandy and I agree that it probably _should_ work like that.
But it's not what the rules say..
Let me quote the relevant bits:
For the purpose of all rules, the term 'Psyker' and 'Psyker Unit' refer to any unit with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerors special rules.
...Each player then adds up the Mastery Levels of all the Psyker units they currently have on the tabletop..
So the question is:
If a unit contains more than 1 psyker, is it more than just one unit?
You can answer: for the purposes of generating warp charges
But then I'd like a page quote on that.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/27 22:10:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/27 23:26:57
Subject: Psyker Units
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
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Here's the post that solved it for me.
Scott-S6 wrote:If they count as a psyker unit then that doesn't work because you select the unit to manifest a power - not an individual psyker. You then have no mechanism to assign perils to a model.
So, if they want to play it that way then you can't cast the same power twice but you are now immune to perils.
As such it's implied that regular pskyers are treated individually while units with brotherhood of psykers are treated collectively but the wording is extremely vague.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/27 23:44:05
Subject: Psyker Units
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Regular Dakkanaut
Shropshire
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For all purposes of the rules, the term psyker and psyker unit refers to any unit with the psyker (pg 170). Psychic Pilot (pg 179) or Brotherhood of Psykers / Sorcers (pg 159) special rules
This is just saying that when ever they say psyker they mean all.these things above not just psykers and not brotherhoods and pilots really dont get the confusion the only psyker units are brotherhoods... A model with the psyker rule does not pass on itrule to make a psyker unit but if a model has brotherhood then it does becuase the usr says as much.
No issues at all here :/
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