BA Duel pistols?

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**whiteleviathan**

Is their any wisdom in giving ASM Sgts duel pistols. I was thinking in terms of either plasma or infernus, not bolt pistols. Thoughts?

**Poly Ranger**

Yes in a pod.

5 man
Melta, 2 infernus
Pod
140pts

5 man
Flamer, 2 hand flamer
Pod
125pts

Both excellent choices.
Plasma - not so much.

**tomjoad**

I've had good luck with the dual hand flamers version before, but now that everything scores, I think I'll have a hard time choosing that over a fragioso in a pod. Still, dual pistol sgts can do some good work.

**DaddyWarcrimes**

The problem I see with Fragnoughts and triple template 5 man Assault squads comes down to how shooting wounds are handled in 7th. The models you kill with the pair of drag cannon shots or the pair of hand flamer shots reduce the number of hits you can get with the other template weapon the unit fires.

**whiteleviathan**

So generally speaking not with Jump Packs?

**tomjoad**

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
The problem I see with Fragnoughts and triple template 5 man Assault squads comes down to how shooting wounds are handled in 7th. The models you kill with the pair of drag cannon shots or the pair of hand flamer shots reduce the number of hits you can get with the other template weapon the unit fires.

Well, now I need to reread the rulebook, but my understanding was that you would lay down all the templates, determine how many hits you get, then roll...I'm seeing where I might have misinterpreted it though.

**DaddyWarcrimes**

You resolve all the fire of one weapon type, then once casualties have been removed, you resolve the next.

**tomjoad**

Oh man, that's a bit of a hit to my favorite unit. Still, the assault squad version should still be ok if you can position the sarge and the flamer to be firing from different angles at different ends of the target unit.

**warpspider89**

I recommend dual plasma pistols IF your sergeant is using jump packs. In a pod melta is viable.

**DaddyWarcrimes**

The dual plasmas are too expensive for what they do. For the same cost, you can get dual Inferno pistols and not have to worry about your sergeant blowing himself up.

**HawaiiMatt**

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
The dual plasmas are too expensive for what they do. For the same cost, you can get dual Inferno pistols and not have to worry about your sergeant blowing himself up.

12" is a lot better than 6", just check your junk folder if you don't believe me.

Dual plasmapistol + dual plasmagun is decent. Two squads dropping in put out an impressive 12 plasma shots; 4 of which are precise shots.
I'd bring in the dread for the templates and the plasma on the assault squad.

**DaddyWarcrimes**

Characters don't have Precision Shot by default any more.

**warpspider89**

Nonetheless, the larger volume of high powered shots at a superior range makes plasma well worth it. It is safer too since you don't have to deep strike as aggressively.

**Poly Ranger**

You don't need to worry about deepstriking aggressively if podding. In a pod always use melta or flamers.
If DoAing then plasma can definitely have a role. Issue is the plasma gun is rapid fire which is not great on assault marines.

**DaddyWarcrimes**

Deep Striking aggressively is really all the army has left that it does well. With the massive buffs to Troop drop pods, locator beacons are going to get a great deal more common, which makes aggressive Deep Strikes even safer.

S8 AP1 is also vastly superior to S7 AP2, especially with vehicles making a resurgence.

**warpspider89**

Well, I mean less risky but I do agree aggressive deep strikes are a must. However, I disagree that melta is all that much better. Most tanks that are reappearing are NOT AV 14, or even 13 for that matter. So, plasma is good enough because of the high S, low AP, & superior rate of fire AND it is better for dealing with MCs given the higher rate of fire.

That said, if your meta has lots of really high AV, then sure go melta all the way.

**DaddyWarcrimes**

Scoring Land Raiders are going to be the new hotness. Mix in some Dark Angels for the power field and you have an army that laughs at S7 shooting.

**warpspider89**

I seriously doubt that. The price point for landraiders is too high for their lack of value in terms of damage output, low mobility, and opportunity cost.

Also, the idea that people are going to bring power generators from the DA book to keep these things going is ludicrous. They have to be too close together to be useful in scoring objectives if you only have one power generator (the most cost efficient choice). If you plan to bring multiple, then the opportunity cost is even higher. High-powered list will rip right through them because they will have invested in killing power.

**Poly Ranger**

warpspider89 wrote:
I seriously doubt that. The price point for landraiders is too high for their lack of value in terms of damage output, low mobility, and opportunity cost.

Definitely agree. Unless its a gk/inq crusader with psybolts. But that doesn't help pure BA.

**tomjoad**

warpspider89 wrote:
I seriously doubt that. The price point for landraiders is too high for their lack of value in terms of damage output, low mobility, and opportunity cost.

The rest of our own codex might be weak, but Blood Angels do get Objective Secured Land Raiders, if we want them. I could see LRs and BAs coming back hand-in-hand right now, actually.

**warpspider89**

Investing in landraiders is still wasteful. Spend 100 points on an objective secured assault marine squad and use the other 150 points on what little killing power BA can still manage. Hoping to not get killed is a waste of time. Your units will be killed. The question is whether you can cripple your enemy enough to gain a slight advantage, which then has to be used to score slightly more points than them.

**tomjoad**

If that is your plan, I'd suggest keeping your Blood Angels on the shelf until the new codex comes out. Or at least calling them Red Ultramarines or whatever.

**warpspider89**

I disagree. Blood Angels best shot right now is to mass plasma in Assault squads & honor guard, as many deep striking as possible, as well as using sternguard in pods, to BETA STRIKE THE FK OUT OF THE ENEMY. Cripple them hard enough when you arrive, without the chance for them to hit back. Then the grind hits and you have to do what I described above. Swarm. Hit them from max range. Move the pack around as needed to score. Don't worry about dying. Most will die. In the grimdark future death is everywhere. Fortunately, victory need only be by 1 more point than the enemy has.