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The Necron FAQ states that a Spyder equipped with a Gloom Prism plus any friendly unit within 3" get a 2+ modifier on DTW. Obviously, this only applies where the unit is a target (so no blessings, conjurations etc) but does it stack?

So if I have a unit with 3 spyders and 2 gloom prisms, I get a 4+modifier as the gloom prism isn't a blessing, or a stat modifier.

Agree?





[Edit : for clarity]

Rules like that usually don't stack, even though it seems like they could. That's just been my experience.

I'm inclined to say yes because-
a) That's the RAW.
and
b) They'd be terribly nerfed with the new rules otherwise.

hmmm....looks like that's 2 on 1! Seems legit to use it then.

 Galorian wrote:
b) They'd be terribly nerfed with the new rules otherwise.

They'll be mostly the same. +2 to DtW means each dice a unit of Spyders use denies in 4+. The OP is asking if it stacks to the point it becomes 2+, as each spyder can have this upgrade.

I see nothing against that...

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Galorian wrote:
b) They'd be terribly nerfed with the new rules otherwise.

They'll be mostly the same. +2 to DtW means each dice a unit of Spyders use denies in 4+. The OP is asking if it stacks to the point it becomes 2+, as each spyder can have this upgrade.

I see nothing against that...

Originally it was a flat "power is nullified of a roll of 4+" bubble that had nothing to do with DtW, now not only is it changed to being a DtW bonus but DtW itself has been nerfed to oblivion for any army not loaded with Psikers (good luck denying against even a mild psiker spam with only 1d6 deny attempts per turn, especially now that you need to roll as many deny successes as the power you're trying to stop has casting successes).

And it's not as if the Prism needed the nerf...

well, but now works against Blessings/Conjurations. And if someone throws a Malediction/Witchfire at something inside the bubble, you'll have a 4+ per success, instead of a flat 6+ for people outside. And, as it seems by the reasoning in the thread, 2 Gloom Prisms takes it down to 2+.
You can ally yourself with a small detachment of psykers to add ML for your rolls, but DtW on 2+ is very good. The most dangerous stuff needs 2 or 3 (4 and 6, to be reliable) successes from the other player, and doing so he'll have less dice to use with other powers. WC 1 powers are quite easly denied with 2+

 Vector Strike wrote:
well, but now works against Blessings/Conjurations. And if someone throws a Malediction/Witchfire at something inside the bubble, you'll have a 4+ per success, instead of a flat 6+ for people outside. And, as it seems by the reasoning in the thread, 2 Gloom Prisms takes it down to 2+.
You can ally yourself with a small detachment of psykers to add ML for your rolls, but DtW on 2+ is very good. The most dangerous stuff needs 2 or 3 (4 and 6, to be reliable) successes from the other player, and doing so he'll have less dice to use with other powers. WC 1 powers are quite easly denied with 2+

Take a small detachment of Farsight Enclaves and grab the Talisman of Arthas Moloch. It gives you 4 extra dice for DTW, 5++, and is 12" Gloom Prism.

 Nilok wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
well, but now works against Blessings/Conjurations. And if someone throws a Malediction/Witchfire at something inside the bubble, you'll have a 4+ per success, instead of a flat 6+ for people outside. And, as it seems by the reasoning in the thread, 2 Gloom Prisms takes it down to 2+.
You can ally yourself with a small detachment of psykers to add ML for your rolls, but DtW on 2+ is very good. The most dangerous stuff needs 2 or 3 (4 and 6, to be reliable) successes from the other player, and doing so he'll have less dice to use with other powers. WC 1 powers are quite easly denied with 2+

Take a small detachment of Farsight Enclaves and grab the Talisman of Arthas Moloch. It gives you 4 extra dice for DTW, 5++, and is 12" Gloom Prism.

No, it doesn't. FAQs.

 Vector Strike wrote:
well, but now works against Blessings/Conjurations. And if someone throws a Malediction/Witchfire at something inside the bubble, you'll have a 4+ per success, instead of a flat 6+ for people outside. And, as it seems by the reasoning in the thread, 2 Gloom Prisms takes it down to 2+.
You can ally yourself with a small detachment of psykers to add ML for your rolls, but DtW on 2+ is very good. The most dangerous stuff needs 2 or 3 (4 and 6, to be reliable) successes from the other player, and doing so he'll have less dice to use with other powers. WC 1 powers are quite easly denied with 2+

How can it work on a conjuration? As for blessings you honestly expect to ever be in a situation where you'll have a Gloom Prism within 3" of an enemy unit that's likely to get blessed during the enemy's psykic phase save for a turn following a failed 3" charge once in a blue moon?

As the Prism works now a Necron player could theoretically put his entire army in 2+ DtW bubbles and be utterly unable to deny anything if the psyker spamming opponent rolled a 1 for warp charges at the start of the phase and cast all his powers with 2 or more successes...

I don't know about you, but I run a Necron mono army and I'm not planning on buying random psiker allies to feed GW's greed.

"you can buy models from another codex" is NEVER a viable excuse for such crappy balance.

Nilok wrote:Take a small detachment of Farsight Enclaves and grab the Talisman of Arthas Moloch. It gives you 4 extra dice for DTW, 5++, and is 12" Gloom Prism.

Doesn't work. To add to rigeld2's point, both rules cover 'friendly' units. Tau and Necrons are AoC, so are treated as enemies.

Galorian wrote:How can it work on a conjuration? As for blessings you honestly expect to ever be in a situation where you'll have a Gloom Prism within 3" of an enemy unit that's likely to get blessed during the enemy's psykic phase save for a turn following a failed 3" charge once in a blue moon?

As the Prism works now a Necron player could theoretically put his entire army in 2+ DtW bubbles and be utterly unable to deny anything if the psyker spamming opponent rolled a 1 for warp charges at the start of the phase and cast all his powers with 2 or more successes...

I don't know about you, but I run a Necron mono army and I'm not planning on buying random psiker allies to feed GW's greed.

"you can buy models from another codex" is NEVER a viable excuse for such crappy balance.

There's no range to DtW now. If a Warlock tries to Conceal his unit while being hidden behind impassable terrain, you can try to DtW him. Gloom Prism's bonus doesn't affect it, sorry if I wasn't clear - was speaking about DtW being able to counter blessings and conjurations.

As you run mono Necron... then you'll need to hold on and adapt to his new situation - or just ignore it. Gloom Prism is the only Psychic defense you'll have - it multiplies the value of DtW rolls against Maledictions/Witchfire cast against a unit within 3" of a Spyder. Reserve your dice for these kind of powers and Gloom Prism will help you

 Vector Strike wrote:

Nilok wrote:Take a small detachment of Farsight Enclaves and grab the Talisman of Arthas Moloch. It gives you 4 extra dice for DTW, 5++, and is 12" Gloom Prism.

Doesn't work. To add to rigeld2's point, both rules cover 'friendly' units. Tau and Necrons are AoC, so are treated as enemies.

Galorian wrote:How can it work on a conjuration? As for blessings you honestly expect to ever be in a situation where you'll have a Gloom Prism within 3" of an enemy unit that's likely to get blessed during the enemy's psykic phase save for a turn following a failed 3" charge once in a blue moon?

As the Prism works now a Necron player could theoretically put his entire army in 2+ DtW bubbles and be utterly unable to deny anything if the psyker spamming opponent rolled a 1 for warp charges at the start of the phase and cast all his powers with 2 or more successes...

I don't know about you, but I run a Necron mono army and I'm not planning on buying random psiker allies to feed GW's greed.

"you can buy models from another codex" is NEVER a viable excuse for such crappy balance.

There's no range to DtW now. If a Warlock tries to Conceal his unit while being hidden behind impassable terrain, you can try to DtW him. Gloom Prism's bonus doesn't affect it, sorry if I wasn't clear - was speaking about DtW being able to counter blessings and conjurations.

As you run mono Necron... then you'll need to hold on and adapt to his new situation - or just ignore it. Gloom Prism is the only Psychic defense you'll have - it multiplies the value of DtW rolls against Maledictions/Witchfire cast against a unit within 3" of a Spyder. Reserve your dice for these kind of powers and Gloom Prism will help you

I'd really much rather have the gloom prism keep its flat "nullify on a 4+" rule than a stacking +2 DtW bonus that requires allied Psikers to be actually viable.

I'm actually happy with the stacking DTW vs maledictions etc.

I run mono necron as well and used to not being able to do anything against blessings. At least now I can throw my meagre dice against summoning (on a 6+) if I want.

But being able to deny Vortex, shriek etc on a 4+ or 2+ is really handy.

I'm thinking that pairs of spyders with claws and prisms to back up ghost arks (with scarabs running around) will be very handy.

Thanks for comments everyone, it seems that no one can find a "no stack" ruling! Good news

 Galorian wrote:
I'd really much rather have the gloom prism keep its flat "nullify on a 4+" rule than a stacking +2 DtW bonus that requires allied Psikers to be actually viable.

But now army will keep that from 5th/6th. Space Wolves 'lost' theirs as well (FAQ missed the right setence, but the intent is clear).
Now the only way to stop a psychic power to be cast is by DtW 6+, applying modifiers if possible.
There is an exception here and there (Khârn when his unit is targeted will DtW on a 2+).