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Runic Weapons and Deny The Witch against Blessings and Conjurations  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator



Essex, UK

Apparently it has been decided by the ETC rules council that Runic Weapons and Njal's staff have some effect when attempting Deny The Witch rolls against Blessings and Conjurations.

I would like to point out why that is NOT the case.

I have been using Rune Priests for the last 2 years and would dearly like them to have some form of advantage which keeps them above the other Psykers in the game so I can continue to justify them, however when it comes to Blessings and Conjurations that is not the case.

'Furthermore, a model with a Runic Weapon adds 1 to Deny The Witch rolls' - Space Wolves FAQ, Ref Page 36
'The Staff of the Stormcaller is a runic weapon (stave) that grants Njal an additional +1 bonus to Deny The Witch rolls (for a total bonus of +2).' - Space Wolves FAQ, Ref Page 53

It has been claimed that as 'Codex trumps BRB' that, even though when making Deny The Witch rolls the BRB says 'apply no modifiers to your dice rolls', the above bonus is still applied to all Deny rolls.

However, there is no conflict between Codex and BRB, because Deny The Witch rolls on powers which do not target units are not made by specific models.

'If none of your units were the target of the enemy's psychic power (the power in question might have been a blessing, a conjuration, or some other power that only affects the Psyker's own troops) you can still attempt to Deny The Witch. To do so, follow the same process, but apply no modifiers to your dice rolls' - BRB, Page 26, paragraph 5

'To make a Deny The Witch test, first select one of your units that was a target of the enemy's psychic power. You will then need to expend a number of Warp Charge points...' - BRB, Page 26, paragraph 1

You never attempt to Deny The Witch on a Blessing or Conjuration using a specific Psyker or unit. And the rules for Runic Weapons explicitly states that the bonus to the Deny The Witch roll is conferred to that specific model, not the player or army.

So unfortunately, Space Wolves are in the same boat as everyone else when it comes to blocking Blessings and Conjurations.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/01 00:28:45


 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






While I agree with you as far as RAW goes, unfortunately Tourney organizers are free to make whatever rules calls they want no matter how wrong they are(I have personally lost a Dawn of War mission to a seer council that started the game in a troops Wave serpent and assaulted out of it after it turbo boosted, all were said to be ok by the TO. Needless to say I have not been back to that TO's Tourneys.)

This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.



 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Yeah, while your take on the rules is correct, I'm not sure what effect you expect on the tournament in question by posting it here rather than just contacting the rules people for that tournament about it...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/01 00:40:45


 
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator



Essex, UK

I find that if you get clear and concise rules interpretations into the public consciousness, they are accepted widely and taken on as standard by the community as a whole.

I have also sent this to the ETC rules council, don't worry. I was looking for feedback on my logic and interpretation. Thank you for your responses.

If any disagree with this interpretation, please do put forward a compelling argument with references.

Thanks guys
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Its not worth anything, but I also agree with your interpretation.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Agreed, and I feel for the same reason that the Witch Eater ability CSM has should not have been causing wounds on my warlocks just cause he managed to get some lucky sixes following my conjuration attempt. But as my group is still trying to understand the new rules, I was outvoted during the game.
   
Made in au
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot






Newcastle, NSW ,Australia

Just to point out,
"To do so, follow the same process, but apply no modifiers to your dice rolls' - BRB, Page 26, paragraph 5 "

"To make a Deny The Witch test, first select one of your units that was a target of the enemy's psychic power. You will then need to expend a number of Warp Charge points...' - BRB, Page 26, paragraph 1 "

Since there is no target you can't RAW DTW. You need a unit of your own to be target of a power, so you can follow the process.

GW's terrible writing strikes again.

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http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/670437.page#8273427
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Blood For The Blood God !!!
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 IXLoiero95XI wrote:
Just to point out,
"To do so, follow the same process, but apply no modifiers to your dice rolls' - BRB, Page 26, paragraph 5 "

"To make a Deny The Witch test, first select one of your units that was a target of the enemy's psychic power. You will then need to expend a number of Warp Charge points...' - BRB, Page 26, paragraph 1 "

Since there is no target you can't RAW DTW. You need a unit of your own to be target of a power, so you can follow the process.

GW's terrible writing strikes again.


It says follow the same process, it doesn't say what step in the process to start on. One could argue that the sentence "If none of your units were the target of the enemy's psychic power", overrides the first sentence of DtW instructions. So instead of choosing a unit that was targeted... which you can't since no units were. You just move directly to deciding how many warp charges to spend. Thus rolling a DtW with no unit so there are no modifiers to apply, and any special ability that depends on a unit rolling would not function.

It seems to me that either you do it that way, or you can't deny the witch, because "follow the same process" tells you to do something that has already been shown to be impossible. Thus making it a rule that can't be followed.

There is however, no justification RAW for picking any unit on the table.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/01 04:50:29


 
   
 
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