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How does WHFB play? Do people think it is a good game/fun game to actually play? What are the chances of GW trying to wreck it to sell more models?

This is coming from who's played a bit of both WH40k and Battlefront's Flames of War, and has armies for both. And who is now finding WH40k a bit drab, but likes FOW.

What don't you like about 40k? I find WHFB much more interesting in the actual maneuvers and feints.

You already need a lot of models to play Fantasy I'm not sure if they can push the needed model count that much higher at this point.

It all depends on your area. Where I live, I can get a few games of WHFB in if I contact my friends or am lucky to find some people playing on Sunday, because its all 40k/warmachine here. But I know a few people out of state who play fantasy like its no tomorrow. You should fond out if anyone is interested in playing or starting with you.

Personally, I like WHFB more than WH40K. Its more fun and the fiction is interesting. This isn't to say that I dont love my Dark Eldar, though.

It would be pretty hard to GW to wreck Fantasy without changing the game entirely. People may complain about 40k being wrecked, but the game has remained the same since 3rd edition and only a few new things have been added (flyers and a psychic phase).


But it can be hard to find actual players, so make sure there is a player base before you jump in.

 welshhoppo wrote:
It would be pretty hard to GW to wreck Fantasy without changing the game entirely. People may complain about 40k being wrecked, but the game has remained the same since 3rd edition and only a few new things have been added (flyers and a psychic phase).


But it can be hard to find actual players, so make sure there is a player base before you jump in.

This. Personally, I've found most if not all the armies to be quite balanced (well... I heard Brettonians and Beastmen were somewhat nerfed) but all armies have a chance of succeeding against another army.

Advantages and disadvantages for armies are also tend to differ (ex. Skaven come in massive numbers but are unreliable, Ogres have tough offensive infantry but have a smaller army)

I was looking into Fantasy, but the model count is still just too high for me.

Tactically, it has a very nice ruleset, but I like a little bit of everything (modelwise) too much to stick with building up a giant army.

Fantasy is what me and my girlfriend first tried getting into but the raw amount of models needing to be painted and assembled eventually just exhausted us and never really got to play, people do play it round here but obviously 40k is more popular. We have had 6 games since 7th came out for 40k and most of the games were two's.

Fantasy looks great and is tacticly involving but I just don't have the will power to paint 20 - 30 man squads the same style and then the next units which are only slightly different from the sqaud I just finished, taking 2 days to finish one model to a satisfying standard when you got loads just means you burn out before you even get to play, was dissapointing. Maybe will try returning to it in the future though.

Just need to find the motivation.

That being said if you got the motivation, it is no doubt worth it, but it is an uphill struggle at entry point.

It all depends how you paint mate
I started with Skavens 16 years ago and never looked back, am painting infantry for my bretonnians these days
If you paint your models one by one, it just doesn't work time-wise
paint by batches of 10 (at least, I usually paint by groups of 40) and you'll save lots of time by not having to switch brushes and paints so much
Might be a bit more monotonous to do 40 faces, 40 pairs of hands and such ... but much more efficient !
Also, Quickshade is awesome

I've had a lot of Skaven models just lying around for a while now, but as my friend ordered 1500 points of Wood Elves I decided to draw up 1500 points of Skaven, and got some help from Tankol in making a Skaven army that, while 1500 points, still has the proper horde feel of a Skaven army.

This gave me a clear goal as for what to paint. Rather than just trying to paint model after model for whatever I felt like building, I'm now trying to complete this specific 1500 point army.

It's not a huge army (but bigger for me than for most, as I'm Skaven) so it doesn't feel insurmountable. And with a clear goal at the end, picking up model after model is much easier.

Once they're all done, It's not gonna be too hard to build on it either. So that's my suggestion. Make a 1500 point army each. One that has a solid base and a few fun toys. Paint to make that one specific army.

Quickshade is an incredibly easy way to get things done fast too, like Tankol says. Personally, I've gone away from it, as I have gotten used to GW's own technical painting colours and find them absolutely brilliant, but that doesn't change the fact that Army Painter's Quickshade can make any sloppy paint in to a half decent rank and file soldier.

To give you an idea, I paint about 3 models while watching netflix in the evening when painting my rats, and for slaves I use the Hobbit Goblin packs, which I paint one full pack in an evening (18 models.)

My 1500 points has 80 slaves, ~60 clanrats and a handful of characters, rares and so on.
I'll probably be done in a month or two.

TanKoL wrote:
It all depends how you paint mate
I started with Skavens 16 years ago and never looked back, am painting infantry for my bretonnians these days
If you paint your models one by one, it just doesn't work time-wise
paint by batches of 10 (at least, I usually paint by groups of 40) and you'll save lots of time by not having to switch brushes and paints so much
Might be a bit more monotonous to do 40 faces, 40 pairs of hands and such ... but much more efficient !
Also, Quickshade is awesome

This. I play Vampire Counts and let me tell you something, I can paint 30 skeletons in an hour. Dont spend too much time on singlemmodels if you have a buttload, dude.

True enough, will be giving it ago again later in the year. Will have plenty of time to decide on what faction to play

I jumped from 40k to fantasy about 8 months ago and I am loving it. Every game is a mental struggle whereas 40k bores the hell out of me.

So, if you have opponents in your area then I would recommend it to anyone feeling the need for more strategy and tactics

There are heaps of speed painting tutorials on YouTube as well, plus several armies that have lower model counts than others. So if painting is less of an interest area then there are certainly ways around that. But overall it's a great game, current edition is probably the best and most balanced in my time playing the game (~15years).

As a long-time (12+ years) veteran of WH40K, I find Warhammer Fantasy in its current state is the better designed game overall. Maneuvering is actually a huge aspect of the game and probably constitutes at least 50% of competitive tactics, while shooting mostly plays support/second fiddle to combat with few exceptions. I also really like the army diversity here as you don't have six flavours of the same army (Space Marines) but instead pretty much every army feels unique in its own way. This is far less a game where the list itself wins out or whoever brings the best guns but rather real tactics and strategy. You can have the be-all end-all death-star unit but it won't do jack if your opponent knows how to keep them out of the game, for example. I find it a much more rewarding game than 40K and I personally hope more and more people adopt it as aside from The Hobbit it is easily GW's best rule-set.

Avoid playing Fantasy at all costs. It's like crack. It has ruined my life.

Seriously though, Fantasy's biggest hurdle is getting an army table-top ready. I suggest spending time on your command unit, including models on the first rank. Everyone else can be semi-assembled and thrown in the back as fillers. This will give you the experience to enjoy Fantasy while gradually working on painting your army at a pace you're comfortable with. Most importantly, you're not fielding all grays!

It is safe to say that the movement phase in Fantasy is similar to playing a game of chess. Sometimes weaker units can crush stronger units by having a superior general employ smart tactics.

I've played ListHammer 40k many moons ago. The game was usually won/lost by the times both guys looked at each other's respective lists. Fantasy, for better or for worse, has elements that allow for a wider standard deviation.

What I consider to be downsides in fantasy: the model count and how it is nearly impossible to play if you forget your movement trays

My advice if you want to get into fantasy is to get a handle of the game itself by proxying almost everything - sure it'll look terrible, but it'll let you experiment with armies and composition before you commit to model purchases, and you won't feel compelled to assemble models and slap paint on them poorly in order to play.

since you're going to want movement trays anyway, i'd start with buying those up, figuring out an army list you want to run, and using the trays with labels to represent your units until you buy them.

and yes, it's a good idea to start with the command models/heroes/first ranks of units when you are painting, because those models are the ones that will be the most visible.

one thing fantasy does have going for it over 40k is that all the models that you spent your time lovingly painting (command, heroes, unit fillers, certain monsters/centerpiece models) have a decent chance of actually staying on the tabletop for more than a single turn. 40k seems to have a lot of first-turn casualties, which means a lot of your lovingly painted, individualized models are going to get shot off the field before they even move. :s

If you can find the people to play with and have the staying power it is very rewarding but starting an army is a big commitment of time and funds. Not for the fickle and you can't field anything worth fielding until 1500+ points.

Is Kings of War a decent tepping stone game to start with as you build up an army for fantasy?

I'm thinking along the lines of having GW models for an army i liked but using the lower model count and simplified KOW rules to kind of get a handle on the game before investing as much time and money in fantasy.

Does anyone have an opinion on this? Sorry if this is not an appropriate place to ask that.

VanHallan wrote:
Is Kings of War a decent tepping stone game to start with as you build up an army for fantasy?

I'm thinking along the lines of having GW models for an army i liked but using the lower model count and simplified KOW rules to kind of get a handle on the game before investing as much time and money in fantasy.

Does anyone have an opinion on this? Sorry if this is not an appropriate place to ask that.

I've never played KoW but it is deffinatly cheaper and more simplified.
The rulebook is online for free: http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/File/KINGS%20OF%20WAR/KoW-MRB-Rules-Web.pdf

I actually prefer some of their models over GW ones and if I ever did Vampire Counts (which I might) I will be using some of their models for $$ saving purposes.
It takes a lot of effort to know the rules of Fantasy in and out, and I don't know them all it takes a long time so it is hard to say how a 32 page rulebook compares to a 200 page fantasy one

Basics of Fantasy are easy to learn Charge/Move, Magic, Shooting, Close Combat. It is all the special rules that bog it down, you can always try playing a very basic game of Fantasy with 3 units or so and just learn the basics then add in the special rules after a few times learning the very basics (if you don't know them already).

Be warned though it is alot of money to invest in Fantasy so just find money saving options as you go

I play both 40k and fantasy (played fantasy for much longer). 40k is great for a quick game with some people at the shops. Fantasy is more laid out, as movement plays a bigger part.

It is painstakingly to paint huge amounts of minis. I prefer to paint on sprue which makes it quicker for me. When you see your 2.5k army sitting there on the table across from someone elses' army, it's just AWESOME!!!

Like others said, go with whats played in your area. Where I am, its the reverse of the norm. Almost every one is playing fantasy, and no one plays 40k.

WHFB is most definitely worth getting into. It is expansive (probably the most expansive of all miniature wargames) but it is totally worth it even if it only were for the nice models.
If there are people playing WHFB in your area, you will definitely get your money's worth out of it.
KoW could indeed be a good stepping stone, as it can be played well with lower point values and is easier to learn.
I would also recommend checking out some of the KoW models, as they are cheaper than GW and some (undead, orcs) actually look good (don't bother with the basileans or elves though).

Its a lot of minis to paint, its hard to find opponents, its prohibitively expensive, it is supported less and less as 40k get bigger; but once you get over all that I think its one of the most entertaining games their is for people who like big fantasy battles.

I currently have 6 armies: skaven, dwarves, empire, high elves, ogres, and undead. I think it plays like a combination or rock paper scissors and chess. Its all about getting the right matchups in combat, and outmanuvering your opponent.

I agree that it is a bit more random than 40k, but a good player can work to minimize that



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FJ wrote:

TanKoL wrote:
It all depends how you paint mate
I started with Skavens 16 years ago and never looked back, am painting infantry for my bretonnians these days
If you paint your models one by one, it just doesn't work time-wise
paint by batches of 10 (at least, I usually paint by groups of 40) and you'll save lots of time by not having to switch brushes and paints so much
Might be a bit more monotonous to do 40 faces, 40 pairs of hands and such ... but much more efficient !
Also, Quickshade is awesome

This. I play Vampire Counts and let me tell you something, I can paint 30 skeletons in an hour. Dont spend too much time on singlemmodels if you have a buttload, dude.

I would recommend painting a unit at a time, which means painting anywhere from 5-40 models. I would stress the important of neatness and color on your models. One of my greatest loves of this game is the pageantry. Theres nothing quite like having a fully painted army all with a unified color scheme with a high table top standard. My opinion is that you should make your army look great since it is already a huge financial investment. One reason my wife doesn't get on me too much about my models is that I make them look awesome and dont have a bunch of ugly unpainted models or unassembled armies lying around.

One last important feature of this game is movement trays and storage. I think it is essential that when you buy a unit make sure you have a movement tray for them or playing is going to take that much more time. Finally, knowing how to store your army is critical since there is often a lot to store. I like to buy a storage case whenever I get a new army so that I can keep my models protected and easily storable. However, if you plan on plaing a lot it is a good idea to simply store the armies on their movement trays on a shelf near your gaming table so that when you play you have the armies ready to go. This game can take as long to set up and put away if you aren't prepared.

 tjnorwoo wrote:


I agree that it is a bit more random than 40k,

Hah, not anymore!

 Wilytank wrote:

 tjnorwoo wrote:


I agree that it is a bit more random than 40k,

Hah, not anymore!

wow, yeah you're right. I can't believe how much 40k has changed since 6th edition. The new release schedule has made everything about the game chaotic. How can anyone get an army list together let alone assemble and paint it before its made invalid

I started playing fantasy two years ago. Since then I've pulled my dark angels out 2-3 times maximum. I just find that the actual tactics in the movement phase are a larger challenge. The magic phase has high potential but it is inconsistent. The shooting phase has a more realistic feel as most shots are not kills. The combat phase is pretty good. This is not to say there aren't issues. There most definitely are. But the game itself is great fun. Add to that beautiful models and you have a winner in my opinion.

MadMarkMagee wrote:
How does WHFB play?

It's less fiddly and more tactical than 40k.

MadMarkMagee wrote:
Do people think it is a good game/fun game to actually play?

It's definitely better than 40k, all in all, it's an ok game that is grossly overpriced.

MadMarkMagee wrote:
What are the chances of GW trying to wreck it to sell more models?

It's in progress. 8th ed has brought us larger units, then more big models and dual+monopose kits that make your units all look the same.

MadMarkMagee wrote:
How does WHFB play?

Its practically the same as 40k only with many more models.

MadMarkMagee wrote:
Do people think it is a good game/fun game to actually play?

That depends, do you like to push models forward, roll buckets of dice instead of making any significant tactical decision and then decide the outcome of the game in the magic phase? If that sounds like fun to you, then WHFB is your game.

MadMarkMagee wrote:

What are the chances of GW trying to wreck it to sell more models?

None, because they have already wrecked it. Every change that you've seen in 40k in 6th and 7th edition (except unbound and allies), was the result of the "great improvement" that was WHFB 8th edition. The over abundance of random rolls for everything and anything, the stupidly powerful magic phase, the rise of huge models, everything began in this edition of Fantasy.

The game practically vanished overnight all around the world when 8th edition was released and currently only die-hard fans even bother with it.

MadMarkMagee wrote:

This is coming from who's played a bit of both WH40k and Battlefront's Flames of War, and has armies for both. And who is now finding WH40k a bit drab, but likes FOW.

If you find 40k drab, stear clear of Fantasy then because its just 40k on steroids.