So Slenderman....worth killing for?

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**KingCracker**

They do realize that its completely made up right?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/12-year-wisconsin-girls-stab-friend-19-times-23959855

Prosecutors say two 12-year-old southeastern Wisconsin girls stabbed their 12-year-old friend nearly to death in the woods to please a mythological creature they learned about online.

Both girls were charged as adults with first-degree attempted homicide Monday in Waukesha County Circuit Court; they each face up to 60 years in prison if convicted. A court commissioner set bail at $500,000 cash per child. According to a criminal complaint, the girls had been planning to kill their friend for months and finally made the attempt in a park on Saturday morning, after a slumber party.

One of the girls told a detective they were trying to become "proxies" of Slender Man, a mythological demon-like character they learned about on creepypasta.wikia.com, a website about horror stories and legends. They planned to run away to the demon's forest mansion after the slaying, the complaint said.

"I recognize their young ages but it's still unbelievable," Court Commissioner Thomas Pieper said during one of the girls' initial court appearances Monday.

The victim suffered 19 stab wounds; one missed a major artery near her heart by a millimeter, doctors told police. She was in stable condition Monday. The court documents did not provide her name.

The Associated Press isn't naming either girl who is charged because at least one of their attorneys plans to pursue moving her case into juvenile court, where proceedings are secret.

Both girls appeared in court wearing shackles and jail jumpsuits. They were surrounded by sheriff's baliffs, who towered over them. Family members of one of the girls wept openly as reporters snapped photographs. The other girl's family sat stone-faced.

According to the criminal complaint, one of the girls told an investigator they began planning to kill their friend in December. The other girl told police they decided to kill her so they could become proxies of Slender Man, who would accept them and let them live with him in his mansion in the Nicolet National Forest.

The other girl said she sees Slender Man in her dreams. She said he watches her and can read her mind and teleport.

"It's extremely disturbing as a parent and as chief of police," Waukesha Police Chief Russell Jack said at a news conference ahead of the court appearances Monday.

The girls invited their friend to a slumber party on Friday evening, the complaint said. They planned to kill her during the night so they wouldn't have to look into her eyes, one girl told police, and then run away. They decided to put it off, but the next day, during a hide-and-seek game in a wooded park, they attacked their friend with a knife. One girl told the other to "go ballistic, go crazy," according to the complaint.

The victim began to scream that she hated them and started stumbling away, one of the girls told police.

The girls left the victim lying in the woods. She crawled to a road where a bicyclist found her lying on the sidewalk. Police arrived and she gave them the name of one of the girls who attacked her.

She was rushed into surgery, police said.

One of the girl's attorneys, Donna Kuchler, asked Pieper to remove reporters from the courtroom because she planned to attempt to get her client waived into juvenile court. Pieper refused. Kuchler escorted the girl's family out of the courtroom, telling reporters only that the family was horrified at what happened.

The other girl's attorney, Joseph Smith Jr., led her family out of court. He declined to comment.

Both girls are due back in court on June 11 for a status conference.

**timetowaste85**

The kids should be psychologically evaluated. This is sad, but if they believe Slenderman is real and were willing to kill for him, I think the roots are deeper. Serious evaluation is needed, and psych therapy. 60 years in jail won't fix them.

**Gitzbitah**

Regardless of their motivations, they sat there, chased down and listened to another human being beg and scream while they stabbed them 19 times- do you think anything can fix them?

I do think they're crazy, but not the sort of crazy that can ever safely walk among us.

**AlexHolker**

timetowaste85 wrote:
60 years in jail won't fix them.

It's not supposed to fix them. It's supposed to keep a couple of psychopaths in a box where they can't stab anyone else.

**Overread**

You have to wonder if there isn't something more to this story behind the two girls. Their behaviour is abnormal in the extreme and whilst you could argue that its a good argument for parents to be more watchful of their children when they go online (and yes that means more than just child-blocker software), I do think there must be more behind this act.

Still I'm sure that before they are locked away they will have to undergo a mental evaluation. For a crime like this and so young chances are they'd need special monitoring otherwise they'd be putting other prisoners at risk.

**d-usa**

AlexHolker wrote:
timetowaste85 wrote:
60 years in jail won't fix them.

It's not supposed to fix them. It's supposed to keep a couple of psychopaths in a box where they can't stab anyone else.

Ideally it would be both.

**Frazzled**

When you have a rabid dog you put the animal down. Same should be done in this case.

**master of ordinance**

I am in total agreement with Frazzled here, a surprising occurence. These girls plotted to kill their friend and they did so to appease a video game character. That they did not understand that Slendeman is a character from a game and entirely fictional should be enough evidence that there is something wrong, that they where having dreams and seeing this character should have been a massive indication to their friends and family that something was seriously fethed up with them.
But that they where willing to plot and plan to kill one of their own friends, someone they would have known for some time and that they would plan to do this to appease Slenderman is indication that there is something far to far gone within their minds to allow them to live on. Even if they are locked up it does not mean that they are not dangerous and there is always the slight chance of them actually escaping.

TL;DR there is something so seriously and completely fethed up with these girls that it is to much of a risk to allow them to live on, and it is not something that can be fixed. They need killing.

**Witzkatz**

These girls sound like Chaos cultists in the making. With delusions of this magnitude this early in their development, I fear it would be extremely difficult for therapists of any kind to actually make a full resocialization possible.

The silver lining is that the other girl lived, and she might even benefit from therapy trying to make her work through this horrible ...thing. I'd be interested in the results of professional psychological and clinical evaluations of the two stabbers.

**SilverMK2**

People kill each other for things that are not reall all the time. If at all possible these 12 year old children should be given all the treatment they need to become normal, adjusted people while in the care of suitable professionals.

The person they attacked should get all the care and support they need to recover from their ordeal both physically and mentally.

**Gitzbitah**

SilverMK2 wrote:
People kill each other for things that are not reall all the time. If at all possible these 12 year old children should be given all the treatment they need to become normal, adjusted people while in the care of suitable professionals.

The person they attacked should get all the care and support they need to recover from their ordeal both physically and mentally.

I really have a hard time believing there is any good left in an individual who can attack someone in such a repeated fashion. I would be more inclined to believe rehabilitation was possible if they had shot their victim once and left them there. As it is, the degree of commitment to ending another human beings life strikes me as irredeemable. There is no good left in a person that can stab another individual that many times when the other person isn't armed, and there is no provocation.

**Ahtman**

Gitzbitah wrote:
SilverMK2 wrote:
People kill each other for things that are not reall all the time. If at all possible these 12 year old children should be given all the treatment they need to become normal, adjusted people while in the care of suitable professionals.

The person they attacked should get all the care and support they need to recover from their ordeal both physically and mentally.

I really have a hard time believing there is any good left in an individual who can attack someone in such a repeated fashion. I would be more inclined to believe rehabilitation was possible if they had shot their victim once and left them there. As it is, the degree of commitment to ending another human beings life strikes me as irredeemable. There is no good left in a person that can stab another individual that many times when the other person isn't armed, and there is no provocation.

Their brains aren't even done forming at their age; it seems a bit harsh to proffer that a twelve year old is 'irredeemable'. We aren't talking about adults, but children. We should evaluate them and make a determination instead of dismissing them out of hand and damning them to a lifetime of imprisonment at such a young age.

**trexmeyer**

Ahtman wrote:
Gitzbitah wrote:
SilverMK2 wrote:
People kill each other for things that are not reall all the time. If at all possible these 12 year old children should be given all the treatment they need to become normal, adjusted people while in the care of suitable professionals.

The person they attacked should get all the care and support they need to recover from their ordeal both physically and mentally.

I really have a hard time believing there is any good left in an individual who can attack someone in such a repeated fashion. I would be more inclined to believe rehabilitation was possible if they had shot their victim once and left them there. As it is, the degree of commitment to ending another human beings life strikes me as irredeemable. There is no good left in a person that can stab another individual that many times when the other person isn't armed, and there is no provocation.

Their brains aren't even done forming at their age; it seems a bit harsh to proffer that a twelve year old is 'irredeemable'. We aren't talking about adults, but children. We should evaluate them and make a determination instead of dismissing them out of hand and damning them to a lifetime of imprisonment at such a young age.

I don't think their brains have even begun forming...they've planned a murder out over several months, believe a video game character is real, believe said character communes with them, decide they should kill a human in order to become servants of said character, and proceed to actually carry out their plans. They just threw away any chance they've had of normalcy or an emotionally stable life. Even if they do get treatment and manage to "recover", this episode will still be in their past.

**Ahtman**

trexmeyer wrote:
I don't think their brains have even begun forming...they've planned a murder out over several months, believe a video game character is real, believe said character communes with them, decide they should kill a human in order to become servants of said character, and proceed to actually carry out their plans. They just threw away any chance they've had of normalcy or an emotionally stable life. Even if they do get treatment and manage to "recover", this episode will still be in their past.

I didn't say they were free of repercussions, just that pretending twelve year olds are the same as adults is silly, and to just toss them away completely at this point is premature. They need to be evaluated and spend time away from society for sure, but I don't think locking them up and throwing away the key at this point is the prudent or just thing to do. We can do better, and we should.

**KingCracker**

Ahtman wrote:
trexmeyer wrote:
I don't think their brains have even begun forming...they've planned a murder out over several months, believe a video game character is real, believe said character communes with them, decide they should kill a human in order to become servants of said character, and proceed to actually carry out their plans. They just threw away any chance they've had of normalcy or an emotionally stable life. Even if they do get treatment and manage to "recover", this episode will still be in their past.

I didn't say they were free of repercussions, just that pretending twelve year olds are the same as adults is silly, and to just toss them away completely at this point is premature. They need to be evaluated and spend time away from society for sure, but I don't think locking them up and throwing away the key at this point is the prudent or just thing to do. We can do better, and we should.

Agreed completely. They are much to young to even be close to having a developed brain. Again, not excusing their actions but definitely not going to condemn them forever either. Unless at the age of 18 they show no signs of change in that thought process while being under evaluation the entire time.

**trexmeyer**

Well the maximum punishment is incarceration up to 25 years of age so they won't be executed or imprisoned for life.

**Frazzled**

SilverMK2 wrote:
People kill each other for things that are not reall all the time. If at all possible these 12 year old children should be given all the treatment they need to become normal, adjusted people while in the care of suitable professionals.

The person they attacked should get all the care and support they need to recover from their ordeal both physically and mentally.

You can't make them normal. There's no freaking way they will ever be "made" close to normal. Put them down, now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ahtman wrote:
Gitzbitah wrote:
SilverMK2 wrote:
People kill each other for things that are not reall all the time. If at all possible these 12 year old children should be given all the treatment they need to become normal, adjusted people while in the care of suitable professionals.

The person they attacked should get all the care and support they need to recover from their ordeal both physically and mentally.

I really have a hard time believing there is any good left in an individual who can attack someone in such a repeated fashion. I would be more inclined to believe rehabilitation was possible if they had shot their victim once and left them there. As it is, the degree of commitment to ending another human beings life strikes me as irredeemable. There is no good left in a person that can stab another individual that many times when the other person isn't armed, and there is no provocation.

Their brains aren't even done forming at their age; it seems a bit harsh to proffer that a twelve year old is 'irredeemable'. We aren't talking about adults, but children. We should evaluate them and make a determination instead of dismissing them out of hand and damning them to a lifetime of imprisonment at such a young age.

We're not talking about children, but monsters. They're crazy and warped and there's a lot more going on here then some internet thing. They've already been "made."
I'm betting alot of stuff has gone down with these two killer wannabees already.

**kronk**

I have no idea what would be appropriate here.

I'm thinking extremely long stay in the looney bin.

**SilverMK2**

Frazzled wrote:
You can't make them normal. There's no freaking way they will ever be "made" close to normal. Put them down, now.

...

We're not talking about children, but monsters. They're crazy and warped and there's a lot more going on here then some internet thing. They've already been "made."
I'm betting alot of stuff has gone down with these two killer wannabees already.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan/22/edlington-brothers-bulger-rehabilitation

Couple of 10 year olds who took part in the murder and torture of another child who have, apparently, been sufficiently rehabilitated to be reintroduced into society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger

Edit: Reading the wiki one of them is not 100% rehabilitated and has been charged with other crimes since his release, but nothing on the other one being in any trouble.

**Frazzled**

Introduced unto your society maybe. The rest of the world thinks thats freaking insane.

**SilverMK2**

Frazzled wrote:
Introduced unto your society maybe. The rest of the world thinks thats freaking insane.

What are you worried about? You can own guns and they can't. Doesn't that make you perfectly safe?

**thenoobbomb**

Frazzled wrote:
Introduced unto your society maybe. The rest of the world thinks thats freaking insane.

Not if they're fully rehabilitated and have sat their sentence.

SilverMK2 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Introduced unto your society maybe. The rest of the world thinks thats freaking insane.

What are you worried about? You can own guns and they can't. Doesn't that make you perfectly safe?

Also, this.

**Gitzbitah**

I ran across that example as well, SilverMk2. I also came across this-
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/weird/kids2/index_1.html

Kemper is a little older than these two, but was also completely reformed and safe. Just ask the people whose body parts he was carrying around in his pockets after being released.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

SilverMK2 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Introduced unto your society maybe. The rest of the world thinks thats freaking insane.

What are you worried about? You can own guns and they can't. Doesn't that make you perfectly safe?

That was grandiose!

Anyway, yeah, try to fix the girls. Keep them isolated and unable to any harm until you managed to do it. If you never manage to do it, never release them. If they were not insane but just evil, keep them locked.

**gunslingerpro**

I wonder what the atttacker's parents have to say?

**SilverMK2**

Gitzbitah wrote:
I ran across that example as well, SilverMk2. I also came across this-
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/weird/kids2/index_1.html

Kemper is a little older than these two, but was also completely reformed and safe. Just ask the people whose body parts he was carrying around in his pockets after being released.

From that short section of article it seems there were a large number of failings in his rehabilitation and follow up supervision. For example, teaching a sociopath how to pass psychological tests is not really a good idea, nor is then ignoring the suggestions of doctors when placing him back into society... into the exact same situation he was in when he commited his original crime.

**timetowaste85**

If these were adults, I'd say put em in the electric chair. But they're 12. They might not have even hit freaking puberty yet (theoretically), and they're not fully developed in any sort of emotional or mental way. Yes, they're fethed up. They need to be put somewhere. But I think a psych ward is far more appropriate than prison. Let them serve a sentence there, possibly reduced if the doctors feel it's appropriate. But prison? They'll sink deeper. Death penalty and prison can certainly be the answer in multiple settings. I don't think this is one of those settings.

**Bromsy**

Sconny man, breed serial killers and wackos way out of proportion.

I think it's something in the water.

**ProfessionalAmateur**

When I was 12, some of the kids at school believed all sorts of stuff (okay, admittedly nothing that would ever lead to murder), but still these girls need psychiatric evaluation and rehabilitation. I'm not about to advocate executing children.

**Frazzled**

thenoobbomb wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Introduced unto your society maybe. The rest of the world thinks thats freaking insane.

Not if they're fully rehabilitated and have sat their sentence.

SilverMK2 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Introduced unto your society maybe. The rest of the world thinks thats freaking insane.

What are you worried about? You can own guns and they can't. Doesn't that make you perfectly safe?

Also, this.

How do define fully rehabilitated? How can someone be fully rehabilitated?