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I need some serious help to prepare to fight my brother thar uses orks. He's getting really hyped about the new codex.I made a list and I want to know if you guys could help me make it better and what a good strategy would be to use against him. I would like to use space marines. Here's my list:
1 chapter master w/ artificer armour and the teeth of terra(relic)=185
2x10 marines w/lascannon=320
2x1 predator w/heavy bolter sponsons=180
5 assault terminators=200
5 devastators w/4 heavy bolters and melta bombs=115
I have to use 1000 points
Please get back to me

The ork codex hasn't come out yet.

I know...but we have a lot of info on it and I was just speaking in general...do you have any suggestions?

Thunderfire Cannons are your friend vs Orks.

Take Pedro and you get preferred enemy against orks...for your entire army lol Then take TFCs and Tac Marines in rhinos and some dev centurions with lascannons and missile launchers for their gorka morka giant robot things. The missile launchers can all fire frag too so that's nice. Finally, dakka jets are easy kills for stormtalons so I'd bring 2 of those. That's about it.

Deepstriking Land Speeders with heavy flamers do a wonder on green tides.

Missile Devastators are excellent, able to use frag on large groups and krak on vehicles/tougher targets. They may be tempting and cheap, but you don't want melta bombs on your Devastators. Devastators want to sit far away and shoot as much as they can, so they'll never get a chance to use that bomb.

Don't take lascannons on Tactical Marines, which can either fire Snap Shots or force the whole unit to stand still (this is bad). Take flamers and/or meltas, depending on what you want them to be doing.

You should just get as many shots as possible on the board, I would take:

Chapter Master (whatever you want)
3x Tac Squad (Heavy bolter and plasma gun)
Dreadnought (Twin autocannons)
2x Dev Squads (4x Heavy Bolters)

Just a thought...

Thanks but...I know that he is going to take a a Gorkanaut or a Morkanaut(whichever one that has kff)*He might take both. I need something that can bust 14 armour from far away other than the one use orbital bombardment.(that's what the lc's were for, chapter master would go with the terminators as a counter-charge, the tac marines were there to light them up when they got within 24 inches and the devs were my fire support)

Chapter Master (whatever you want) 3x Tac Squad (Heavy bolter and plasma gun) Dreadnought (Twin autocannons) 2x Dev Squads (4x Heavy Bolters) 

A list like this was what I was talking about:

Pedro
Tactical Squad (10) - rhino, flamer
Tactical Squad (10) - heavy bolter

Stormtalon - skyhammers

TFC
Centurion Devastator Squad (3) - lascannons x3, missile x1

1000 points

That lets you sit pedro and the heavy bolter squad in cover ahead of the Cents (he can still fire his orbital bombardment). The Centurions rip open Gorkanaut and transports, the TFC and Tac Squads kill what's inside. The Stormtalon handles a Dakka Jet, and everything can hurt swarms of infantry. Everything also has preferred enemy against orks... can't beat that.

Thunder fire cannons are just plain good.

Getting melta to the G/Morkanaut would probably be more reliable than lascannons. Melta bikers can work, as can the well-known combi-melta Sternguard in a drop pod technique.

I'm not entirely familiar with the Storm Talon, but I believe it has assault cannons. Those can be surprisingly effective against AV14, with Rending. Bonus points if the big Ork machine in question only has blast weapons (I've seen it with some sort of big gatling gun thing, but it's possible that the thing can be taken with blast-only), making the flier immune to it.

Seriously, though, don't take lascannons on Tactical Marines. They're expensive and they slow them way down. If you really have to have lascannons, go with Devastators and Predators.

Your Assault Terminators could do a fair amount of damage to the thing as well, especially if given a chainfist. We don't know the thing's melee capability, but it's possible that they could deepstrike behind it in relative safety to assault it the next turn.

xTHExCLINCHERx wrote:
A list like this was what I was talking about:

Pedro
Tactical Squad (10) - rhino, flamer
Tactical Squad (10) - heavy bolter

Stormtalon - skyhammers

TFC
Centurion Devastator Squad (3) - lascannons x3, missile x1

1000 points

That lets you sit pedro and the heavy bolter squad in cover ahead of the Cents (he can still fire his orbital bombardment). The Centurions rip open Gorkanaut and transports, the TFC and Tac Squads kill what's inside. The Stormtalon handles a Dakka Jet, and everything can hurt swarms of infantry. Everything also has preferred enemy against orks... can't beat that.

I would avoid centurions at 1000 points game if it where me! you could take another 2 more TFCs and still have points left over!

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
assault cannons [...] can be surprisingly effective against AV14, with Rending.

As in, it will be a surprise when they are effective vs AV14. As a player who depends on assault cannons with +1S (Grey Knights, psycannons) please take drop podded combi-melta Sternguard (or at least melta/grav bikers) to deal with AV >12

This is 6th edition knowledge, but I'm pretty sure assault cannons are better than lascannons at this sort of thing (this is more a symptom of lascannons not actually being that good, though). I'm just saying that the Storm Talon might be able to do something to it, after it's done with any Ork fliers, not that it should be relied upon to do so! The OP was specifically wanting to use lascannons, which (unless this has changed) just aren't as good as assault cannons vs AV14.

I totally agree, though. Deepstriking melta (Chaos Terminators!) and melta-bikers are excellent. However, it is hard to predict anything at this time - perhaps the 'anaut will be completely terrible (probably not).

Quick, rough math says you're right: Lascannons are inferior to assault cannons.

Assault cannon
4 shots
3+ to hit
2.666... shots hit
6 to rend
0.444... shots rend
.296... shots glance/pen

Lascannon
1 shot
3+ to hit
.666... hit
.222... glance/pen

Although that doesn't include things like Lascannon having 2x the range, or the possibility to outright explode (as rare as it might be).
Still vastly inferior to melta, though. Reserve taking potshots with the assault cannon for when all of his infantry is dead.

Yeah. As a CSM player, I don't much concern myself with assault cannons, but it's good to know what they're capable of. It's less about hunting AV14/whatever with assault cannons and more about knowing what an assault cannon is capable of if it happens to be in range. Still, that TLAC on the Talon is no joke.

Can Land Speeders take melta? I'm not at home, so I don't have access to any of my books. My knowledge on post-6E books is rather limited, especially when it comes to things I don't see often (Land Speeders, Storm Talons). If so, a deepstriking Land Speeder with melta or multi-melta would be seriously nasty.

EDIT: OP, is there anything else significant about your brother's army?

My brother was also planning on taking flash gits because they get much better in the new codex. I'm liking the list with pedro in it but I would not want to take centurions. Maybe I could replace it with a stormtalon or a tfc. Oh yeah and...what's an op?

 The Emperor's Child wrote:
My brother was also planning on taking flash gits because they get much better in the new codex. I'm liking the list with pedro in it but I would not want to take centurions. Maybe I could replace it with a stormtalon or a tfc. Oh yeah and...what's an op?

What about this? (Oh, and side note... "technically" you can still take Pedro and use the Sentinels of Terra supplement to get "Close Range Bolter Drill" which is just gonna be amazing for you.

Pedro
Tactical Squad (10) - rhino, combi-flamer, flamer
Tactical Squad (10) - heavy bolter
Scout Squad (5) - bolters, land speeder storm w/heavy flamer

Stormtalon - skyhammers

Devastator Squad (5) - lascannon x4
TFC

1000 points

I'd hate to throw away a unit of sternguard (which you would be doing because they'll never survive being that close to the tide) but if you wanna take out the Mork/Gork-anaut another way, try this:


Pedro
Tactical Squad (10) - rhino, combi-flamer, flamer
Scout Squad (9) - bolters, storm bolter

Sternguard (5) - pod, combi-melta x4

Stormtalon - skyhammers

TFC
TFC

1000 points

 The Emperor's Child wrote:
what's an op?

Dakka has a feature which clarifies acronyms and the like. When a word is yellow, hover your cursor over it to get an explanation. "OP" in this case stands for "original poster". In this thread, that is you.

EDIT: Both of them are 13/13/12 with 5 HP, no AV14 (White Dwarf). You'll have a much easier time taking it out, then.

Thanks...I couldn't see it because I am on my phone...av 13!!! That's amazing! I have a couple of lists based on what people have said and my original list. I will post them soon so that you guys can vote for the one you like most.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was thinking about having the sterngaurd in a drop pod w/ a deathwind and a locator beacon, and a tfc in a drop pod w/ a deathwind. I would have the sterngaurd vets come in first turn, have the tfc pod drop in next turn(hopefully) to provide cover fire.