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Back with the 5th ED. IG guard codex the devil dog was never worth its points because of meta vets and the under priced vendetta did the job tank hunting better. Plus they removed possilble the best tank hunter in the codex the medusa. With the price change of the vendetta and meta vets only able to fire two meta guns out of the chimera does the Devil Dog have a place now? Its a fast attack with two mutil metas so it can get a cross the battle field in a turn or two. Also with the change of the vehicle damage table Ap1 weapons are even more important. Of corse we have pask in a vanquisher who is now hands down the best at killing av 14 armour. It did have a small price increase but does it just come to the point that it is needed especialy for lists that does not run blobs?

Fast vehicles travelling at cruising speed can now fire two weapons. This gives the Devil Dog the ability to move 12" and fire both of its melta weapons, probably the reason that it went up in price. I think that given dozer blades and multi meltas, a pair of these could be very effective at taking out heavy armour.

In 6th fast could fire 2 weapons at cursing speed I checked to make sure. I think besides pask in a vanisher as warlord is the best anti tank in the Ig codex followed by the devil dog perhaps. Is there anything I missed that can punch 14 and 13 armor better?

Zengu wrote:
In 6th fast could fire 2 weapons at cursing speed...

Yeah, I guess that I was just remembering it wrong.

The Hellhound/DevilDog/Bane Wolf as is really just don't seem to have had any thought put into their pricing.


There doesn't appear to be a rational explanation regarding their cost, they can't do anything now they couldn't do in 5th or 6th really, and are much easier to kill than their 5E counterparts.

It's unfortunate, but pricing them at what Leman Russ tanks cost now, for often the same jobs (yes they're faster, but Leman Russ tanks can still move and fire everything and generally have the whole board to engage their targets, and *way* better armor), it would appear they just got some random jiggling "just because" and then overlooked.

It's especially bad when you compare them to many similar skimmer platforms then cost roughly the same number of points but get Jink and faster flat out movement too, and often better BS.

 Vaktathi wrote:
The Hellhound/DevilDog/Bane Wolf as is really just don't seem to have had any thought put into their pricing.


There doesn't appear to be a rational explanation regarding their cost, they can't do anything now they couldn't do in 5th or 6th really, and are much easier to kill than their 5E counterparts.

It's unfortunate, but pricing them at what Leman Russ tanks cost now, for often the same jobs (yes they're faster, but Leman Russ tanks can still move and fire everything and generally have the whole board to engage their targets, and *way* better armor), it would appear they just got some random jiggling "just because" and then overlooked.

It's especially bad when you compare them to many similar skimmer platforms then cost roughly the same number of points but get Jink and faster flat out movement too, and often better BS.

I agree the hellhound and bane wolf sadly don't have a place because the russes plus the wyvern does the job better and cheaper. But I don't not think that any of the russes can do what the devil dog does maybe a demo but its slow.

Well, they can move 24" in a single turn and score. That is at least one advantage over Russes.

 Vaktathi wrote:
The Hellhound/DevilDog/Bane Wolf as is really just don't seem to have had any thought put into their pricing.


There doesn't appear to be a rational explanation regarding their cost, they can't do anything now they couldn't do in 5th or 6th really, and are much easier to kill than their 5E counterparts.

It's unfortunate, but pricing them at what Leman Russ tanks cost now, for often the same jobs (yes they're faster, but Leman Russ tanks can still move and fire everything and generally have the whole board to engage their targets, and *way* better armor), it would appear they just got some random jiggling "just because" and then overlooked.

It's especially bad when you compare them to many similar skimmer platforms then cost roughly the same number of points but get Jink and faster flat out movement too, and often better BS.

I think the logic was fast = AV 14. The guard took some hits to its mobility, which is what 7th seems designed around. I think they believe that as a fast vehicle the HH variants are equivalent to their tank variants IE HH- Eradicator, DD-Vanquisher. Bane Wolf not sure at all where the bane wolf fits as it is so close range it will die long before it is effective. I am not saying that is good logic, I just think that is what was going through their minds.

Right now, I think the hellhound i the only one of use. It is still pretty cheap with fast can be a good objective grabber. The torrent flamer is pretty nice for killing light infantry and burning necrons, DE, and orks in their vehicles. Especially since it can't miss. I would be very wary about fielding the other 2.

Zengu wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
The Hellhound/DevilDog/Bane Wolf as is really just don't seem to have had any thought put into their pricing.


There doesn't appear to be a rational explanation regarding their cost, they can't do anything now they couldn't do in 5th or 6th really, and are much easier to kill than their 5E counterparts.

It's unfortunate, but pricing them at what Leman Russ tanks cost now, for often the same jobs (yes they're faster, but Leman Russ tanks can still move and fire everything and generally have the whole board to engage their targets, and *way* better armor), it would appear they just got some random jiggling "just because" and then overlooked.

It's especially bad when you compare them to many similar skimmer platforms then cost roughly the same number of points but get Jink and faster flat out movement too, and often better BS.

I agree the hellhound and bane wolf sadly don't have a place because the russes plus the wyvern does the job better and cheaper. But I don't not think that any of the russes can do what the devil dog does maybe a demo but its slow.

Vanquisher, 72" S8+2d6 armor pen gun that doesn't care about range. Same price as a Devil Dog, and for the price of a Devil-Dog with a multi-melta you can give it a Lascannon too, and for 20pts more you can take on *two* multi-meltas on top of that.

 Trickstick wrote:
Well, they can move 24" in a single turn and score. That is at least one advantage over Russes.

Sure, but that's a secondary or even tertiary consideration.

nedTCM wrote:


I think the logic was fast = AV 14.

It's possible that was the logic, but unfortunately without having "Skimmer" attached it's nowhere near equal :(

The guard took some hits to its mobility, which is what 7th seems designed around.

How so? They got a new Transport with a Fast variant, the Chimera is as fast as it ever was, Valkyries and Vendettas are as fast as they ever were, and Run moves are the same as they were going back to 5th.

I think they believe that as a fast vehicle the HH variants are equivalent to their tank variants IE HH- Eradicator, DD-Vanquisher. Bane Wolf not sure at all where the bane wolf fits as it is so close range it will die long before it is effective. I am not saying that is good logic, I just think that is what was going through their minds.

I agree that's probably the only possible logic that would make sense as to their pricing. I would however definitely say it's not good logic

Right now, I think the hellhound i the only one of use. It is still pretty cheap with fast can be a good objective grabber. The torrent flamer is pretty nice for killing light infantry and burning necrons, DE, and orks in their vehicles. Especially since it can't miss. I would be very wary about fielding the other 2.

I would agree had they not made the LR Eradicator 120pts. A 36" range S6 AP4 Large Blast with three heavy bolters (that don't have to snap fire) on an AV14 platform that moves and fire everything feels much more useful. It may whiff, but gets to engage targets much farther out and pump out a lot more secondary fire, without having to expose itself as much to enemy return fire or enemy assaults. The mobility for nabbing objectives is nice, but would primarily be a secondary or tertiary consideration, especially considering the much lower life expectancy.

I agree a tank commander in a vanisher would be better than a devil dog but what about just a normal BS3 vanisher? Will the Devil dog blast hit more than the one shot from a BS 3 vanisher? Also would two vanishers with each a las cannon and mulit meltas be enough anti tank?

Zengu wrote:
I agree a tank commander in a vanisher would be better than a devil dog but what about just a normal BS3 vanisher? Will the Devil dog blast hit more than the one shot from a BS 3 vanisher? Also would two vanishers with each a las cannon and mulit meltas be enough anti tank?

That all depends on the range and the target. Obviously at close ranges the BS3 blast will generally net a little better performance (nearly BS4 in terms of average hits on a tank target), but relies on the center of that blast being within 9" for that 2d6 pen, outside of that, from 72-9", the Vanquisher is going to average out better.

As for a single vanquisher with all that jazz being enough AT? I'd never say so, but then no single unit can ever be enough AT, the issue is that such AT is generally much better provided by units other than the Devil Dog, at least in my opinion.

Zengu wrote:
I agree a tank commander in a vanisher would be better than a devil dog but what about just a normal BS3 vanisher? Will the Devil dog blast hit more than the one shot from a BS 3 vanisher? Also would two vanishers with each a las cannon and mulit meltas be enough anti tank?

The IG don't have a tank called a vanisher. The vanquisher isn't really a solid buy without the tank commander; If you rely on a single BS 3 shot you're going to be a sad panda...

I'm a proponent of letting IG infantry deal with enemy armor, and IG armor deal with enemy infantry. It lends well to the mass weapon availability of infantry units stacked with orders, while the Russ blast weapons don't care as much about BS, each having a 1/3 chance to direct hit regardless of BS.

That said, if you're taking Devil Dogs, you're not taking Hellhounds. So I'm not for them.

Well, the HH and variants are fast of course, but they're also 12/12/10 rather than the usual 12/10/10 chimera chassis vehicle usually are; Vanquishers are top for armour killing, but let's face it, your opponent won't really mind spending a full turn shooting at it and glancing it to death so that he can just roll over your side of the board without any fuss. Enter the Devil Dog to help ruin his day.

But yeah- I'd rather than a Hellhound, cram those Xenos into their cover, but I see the value in the Devil Dog

My bad about misspelling vanquisher. The vanquisher plus a tank commander is probably best way to go for anti tank. One commander plus pask going along way in the At role I think. I think the devil dog also servers the role too because why the heavy shots always being full close to full playing 1500+ games.

Mad_Proctologist wrote:

Zengu wrote:
I agree a tank commander in a vanisher would be better than a devil dog but what about just a normal BS3 vanisher? Will the Devil dog blast hit more than the one shot from a BS 3 vanisher? Also would two vanishers with each a las cannon and mulit meltas be enough anti tank?

The IG don't have a tank called a vanisher. The vanquisher isn't really a solid buy without the tank commander; If you rely on a single BS 3 shot you're going to be a sad panda...

The new vehicle damage table pretty much has you being a sad panda from the get-go. The thing can only one-shot a tank on a 6 - not sherrif serious but I'm really not a fan. Rather have a boatload of shots in the Pasquisher or something like that.