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Hi lads I've always loved these models and I'm now looking at running a list with three units of these mofos led by baharroth with jetbike support allying with guard for long range pew pew. How have people seen swooping hawks working/not working?

Swooping hawks are amazing. Check out my tactica (sig) on them I've summed up almost all their uses

 Sir Arun wrote:
Swooping hawks are amazing. Check out my tactica (sig) on them I've summed up almost all their uses

Black Templars Tactica?
The difference between BT and other SMs is 1 unit and 2 gak special characters.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Swooping hawks are amazing. Check out my tactica (sig) on them I've summed up almost all their uses

Black Templars Tactica?
The difference between BT and other SMs is 1 unit and 2 gak special characters.

and objective secured land raider crusaders, and re-rolls to hit in challenges, and rending in challenges, and being able to re-roll the run die, and being able to add +d3 to sweeping advance rolls, and 5+ deny the witch on everybody, but lets not derail this thread

Cheers man, I quite like the challenge of playing a force that is dependent on skyleap/deep striking. Plus the swooping hawks models are gorgeous, although I would like to see a new sculpt for baharroth. What unit sizes would you reccommend?

Optimally 10, ofc, but I run a 6 man squad usually. Exarch usually with talon.

Yeah 6 is what you should go for - just enough to get the big blast marker while coming in, and Baharroth has his own small blast as does an Autarch if you take him (I think he does).

So thats quite a bit of AP4 ignores cover bombardment if you ask me. Perfect to ravage any static gunline hiding behind an ADL.

Think I'll run three units of 6, and baharroth going with one of them

 Sir Arun wrote:
Yeah 6 is what you should go for - just enough to get the big blast marker while coming in, and Baharroth has his own small blast as does an Autarch if you take him (I think he does).

Swooping hawk wings just makes the Autarch jump infantry. No grenade pack, no Herald of Victory, and no Skyleap . Adding him to the hawk unit just makes the unit no longer composed entirely of models with the Herald of Victory and Skyleap rules and thus can no longer benefit from them.

 Destroyer_742 wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Yeah 6 is what you should go for - just enough to get the big blast marker while coming in, and Baharroth has his own small blast as does an Autarch if you take him (I think he does).

Swooping hawk wings just makes the Autarch jump infantry. No grenade pack, no Herald of Victory, and no Skyleap . Adding him to the hawk unit just makes the unit no longer composed entirely of models with the Herald of Victory and Skyleap rules and thus can no longer benefit from them.

Which makes complete sense, because the Autarch only took the wings with him after becoming a Swooping Hawk, not the grenade pack, and lacks the skills for skyleap and herald of victory.

Wait isnt there a clause that makes the Autarch get whatever special rules the aspect warrior squad he is with also has?

E.g. if he joins a squad of Striking Scorps he gains infiltrate, if he joins a squad of banshees he gets to run an additional D3, etc?

Or was this a remnant in my head from the old codex?

 Sir Arun wrote:
Wait isnt there a clause that makes the Autarch get whatever special rules the aspect warrior squad he is with also has?

No.

Nothing in the previous codex said this either.

A hawk army would be wicked, you'd have the ability to really open on your opponent in imaginative ways. I'd run them as units of 6, as this is where the blast becomes the big template. But when you lose a man you will lose the large blast. But with 3 units thats atleast 3 big blasts which should cause plenty of havok

id probably run more than 3 units if it was me, but thats just because how awesome would it be when you bring in 9 units of 6 hawks, with no scatter and the exarch with blind rifle.

9 big blasts followed up by some huge AI pew pew. Followed by Turn2 grenading those vehicles to death.

Although you'll struggle against armoured lists where there all in transports :/ Hmm. Perhaps, a nice fat gunline with loads of AT, hawks in reserves. Blast his transports to pieces then bring in the hawks when you need to mop them up.

I imagine whatever happens it would be a fun list to play!

Wait so you are telling me ever since 2006 when the Autarch was introduced, sticking him to a Striking Scorp squad meant that squad could no longer infiltrate?

And since 2013 sticking him to a squad of Swooping Hawks means the squad can no longer grenade pack?

Hmm looks like the Autarch really does suck incredible amounts.

@OP: yeah, hawks really are the only unit (apart from Fire Dragons) that can take out a Land Raider within 1 turn. At least if there's 8 members.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Wait so you are telling me ever since 2006 when the Autarch was introduced, sticking him to a Striking Scorp squad meant that squad could no longer infiltrate?

And since 2013 sticking him to a squad of Swooping Hawks means the squad can no longer grenade pack?

Hmm looks like the Autarch really does suck incredible amounts.

@OP: yeah, hawks really are the only unit (apart from Fire Dragons) that can take out a Land Raider within 1 turn. At least if there's 8 members.

Before the squad could always give ICs infiltrate, so the autarch and striking scorpians still could infiltrate. Of course so could farseers and every other IC hq.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Wait so you are telling me ever since 2006 when the Autarch was introduced, sticking him to a Striking Scorp squad meant that squad could no longer infiltrate?

And since 2013 sticking him to a squad of Swooping Hawks means the squad can no longer grenade pack?

Hmm looks like the Autarch really does suck incredible amounts.

@OP: yeah, hawks really are the only unit (apart from Fire Dragons) that can take out a Land Raider within 1 turn. At least if there's 8 members.

Also wraithguard with wraithcannons.

 Timmy149 wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Wait so you are telling me ever since 2006 when the Autarch was introduced, sticking him to a Striking Scorp squad meant that squad could no longer infiltrate?

And since 2013 sticking him to a squad of Swooping Hawks means the squad can no longer grenade pack?

Hmm looks like the Autarch really does suck incredible amounts.

@OP: yeah, hawks really are the only unit (apart from Fire Dragons) that can take out a Land Raider within 1 turn. At least if there's 8 members.

Also wraithguard with wraithcannons.

Wraithguard have less offensive anti tank now. Needing a 6 to pop a tank, and with an average of 3 hits (technically a little bit more, but I always roll 3) your going to need to roll 3 5s or 6s, then a consecutive 6. Not including cover. Not very pretty.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Timmy149 wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Wait so you are telling me ever since 2006 when the Autarch was introduced, sticking him to a Striking Scorp squad meant that squad could no longer infiltrate?

And since 2013 sticking him to a squad of Swooping Hawks means the squad can no longer grenade pack?

Hmm looks like the Autarch really does suck incredible amounts.

@OP: yeah, hawks really are the only unit (apart from Fire Dragons) that can take out a Land Raider within 1 turn. At least if there's 8 members.

Also wraithguard with wraithcannons.

Wraithguard have less offensive anti tank now. Needing a 6 to pop a tank, and with an average of 3 hits (technically a little bit more, but I always roll 3) your going to need to roll 3 5s or 6s, then a consecutive 6. Not including cover. Not very pretty.

The difficulty with a landraider is the armour, not so much the damage table. If you get enough glances, you can pop anything in a turn. Obviously Hawks and Dragons are more effective given their kit, but wraithguard are significantly tougher and die to bricks as opposed to a stiff breeze.

Late last night ( actually early morning) we tested out a Swooping Hawl list against a heavy DE skimmer list ...

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t6960p580-a-tdc-blog-tactics-unit-analysis-batreps-observations#bottom

Bottom line - Hawks rock against mech slimmer lists. By end of turn four 13 skimmers were down with acceptable losses to the Hawl list.

 felixcat wrote:
Late last night ( actually early morning) we tested out a Swooping Hawl list against a heavy DE skimmer list ...

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t6960p580-a-tdc-blog-tactics-unit-analysis-batreps-observations#bottom

Bottom line - Hawks rock against mech slimmer lists. By end of turn four 13 skimmers were down with acceptable losses to the Hawl list.

Was the damage done through the blasts or the combination of everything else? There seems to be other stuff in the list that wouldn't just be in a hawk list that probably made a difference.

 Timmy149 wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Timmy149 wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Wait so you are telling me ever since 2006 when the Autarch was introduced, sticking him to a Striking Scorp squad meant that squad could no longer infiltrate?

And since 2013 sticking him to a squad of Swooping Hawks means the squad can no longer grenade pack?

Hmm looks like the Autarch really does suck incredible amounts.

@OP: yeah, hawks really are the only unit (apart from Fire Dragons) that can take out a Land Raider within 1 turn. At least if there's 8 members.

Also wraithguard with wraithcannons.

Wraithguard have less offensive anti tank now. Needing a 6 to pop a tank, and with an average of 3 hits (technically a little bit more, but I always roll 3) your going to need to roll 3 5s or 6s, then a consecutive 6. Not including cover. Not very pretty.

The difficulty with a landraider is the armour, not so much the damage table. If you get enough glances, you can pop anything in a turn. Obviously Hawks and Dragons are more effective given their kit, but wraithguard are significantly tougher and die to bricks as opposed to a stiff breeze.

5 wraithgaurd dont get enough shots to strip 4 hull points off land raiders. You need a near full 10 with spirit mark to do so. And thats with them not in cover. And thats with the wraith guard some how getting into range of the land raider. Wraithguard are really bad at killing land raiders.

Was the damage done through the blasts or the combination of everything else? There seems to be other stuff in the list that wouldn't just be in a hawk list that probably made a difference.

I don;t know what you meann by 'wouldn't be in a hawk list'. We used 27 hawks lol. Of course everything contributed. We baoited the de forward with the WG. The Warwalkers outflanked and did gamage. The Shuriken cannons did damage. The Hawks used all their tricks. Haywire against that many skimmers is huge of course.

 felixcat wrote:

Was the damage done through the blasts or the combination of everything else? There seems to be other stuff in the list that wouldn't just be in a hawk list that probably made a difference.

I don;t know what you meann by 'wouldn't be in a hawk list'. We used 27 hawks lol. Of course everything contributed. We baoited the de forward with the WG. The Warwalkers outflanked and did gamage. The Shuriken cannons did damage. The Hawks used all their tricks. Haywire against that many skimmers is huge of course.

Ah okay, for somereason I read your previous post as all the damage being done by the hawks, which I would assume is close to being true, given that Hawks are frankly amazing.