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You can take "quest for glory" (dont know english description) as major setback to enable other traits to have.
takes assault-termies and honorguard-termies out of the list,no relics or artefacts to buy and reduces termis/vets and dreads to 0-1.
This one really strikes your "elite" foc! Maybe useful for full bikesquad armies or if you like more than 3 assaultsquads.

But new dex is said to cancel traits. :S
If youre DA: play deathwing and have lots of termies? Sad they clipped them to 5 men squad.

Termie-armor is not fluff-restricted, only a trait to exchange foc entrys.

Actually if i remember maximun amount of Termines in a DA army is only 47, it should be near the entire first company in a true deathwing army.

Space_hoppo wrote:Actually if i remember maximun amount of Termines in a DA army is only 47, it should be near the entire first company in a true deathwing army.

Chose Belial as HQ and have 3x5 termies as elite plus 6x5 termies as troop = 45 . with Belial and a 2nd IC in termie armor you get the 47. Its GW's fault,they reduced termies to 5 men squads.

The big hit took the BA in the WD-dex : only elite 3x5 termies fieldable!
SM had until end 08: 2x10 in hq plus 3x10 in elite plus 2x2 chaplains/scriptors added to a captain = 54!

I fear the way this goes,from 10 men squads to 5 men squads and no termie-honorguard.
GW,DON'T steal our termies!

Yeah what did the poor termies do!!!!

Sad terminator

Yeah, without any friends/battle brothers to call his own, he gets lonely on the long campaigns.

Needs his comrades with him. Must break GW-Dex blockade!

Erm, not sure what to say after that picture except where did you get that lot from? And all terminator forces aren't that good anyway, or seem way to cheesed up. I for one am glad with the terminator losses.

Storm Lord wrote:Erm, not sure what to say after that picture except where did you get that lot from?

Thats 80 % of my 30k marines force,so 5-6 armylists at that picture. Build 1-2 armys a Year and dont sell them leads
to it.Apocalypse may be the only chance to field them complete.

And all terminator forces aren't that good anyway, or seem way to cheesed up. I for one am glad with the terminator losses.

Glad with losses? Why? I'm sure the time of more than 15 termies at once in a 40k game has never been.
Count the points and see the "low" price tag!
Too much weapons against 2+ saves out there and a 5+ invul is only a 30% chance.

Ah against a lot of weapons fire, the 2+ save isn't very useful. But then again against massed fired armour isn't much useful.

Its the fact you have too few models I don't like. it makes it hard to take mulitiple objectives without Land raider Transport speed, which limits you even more. And they don't have the needed anti tank or horde fire power needed when fighting said armies

A massive SM force should be either come in by droppods/teleport direct on objective
or with thunderhawks as transport and firesupport.

Pure Rhino/Land Raider runs are to easy detected and could be ambushed.

Its not the job of a SM to be the main body of imperial military might.
A horde army would simply overrun them ( 800 marines vs 3000 orks at 30k ), only orbital bombardment would
give marines a chance "nuke em all"

Nuking them always works, orks are too stupid to shoot down Nukes, they take it on the chin.

And you can extract marines very fast......

Or you dont put them there in the first place.

Sacrifice some poor guardsmen? ,a few last chancers perhaps,but no regular unit.

IMHO hordes could only be dealt with Traps or air superiority,maybe orbital barrages.

To fight hordes with guard, points must be lowered for guardsmen or given the "endless" rule for them.
To fight hordes with Space marines,the marines need what they got at many novels

Orks suck against space ships because they only have roks and hulks. So the best way to beat orks to to just bomb the planet flat. But this kinda kills everyone on it.

Its a only last resort choice,when all inhabitants are =

maybe, but don't Imperial doctrines state something like 'everyone is expendable to save the Emperor and his domain' I don't think bombing civilians is going to be a huge problem for them

Talked to the departmento munitorum,they stated:
Don't spend ammunition on citizens, make better use of the emperors resources!

Aye, for friendly fire and Crusades to no where. Besides sometimes gunners can become bored.

Space_hoppo wrote:Aye, for friendly fire and Crusades to no where. Besides sometimes gunners can become bored.

So,bored gunners shoot for fun? Shell the hell out of someone to be remembered

Well the Dark Angels did it to the black Templars once, t'was funny as it started with a litte argument over a fallen angel... Then the DA got really annoyed and the battle barge wiped it out.

Well the Dark Angels did it to the black Templars once, t'was funny as it started with a litte argument over a fallen angel... Then the DA got really annoyed and the battle barge wiped it out.

Wasn't that 'fallen angel' actually Cypher? If so the Dark Angels did a bad job 'looking' after him. He disappeared after a few minutes in the holding cell, if the Black Templars had kept him he'd never have got away

Cypher can't be dead,he has a special saving throw,makes him surviving everything.

Was it Cypher on the BT ship? In the past there was a lord cypher as rank in the DA legion.
Todays gunslinger in green has no identity. Most interesting when GW screwed the color for him.
Should wear black - pre-heresy but is green as today. :S

He's meant to wear black, at least thats what it says on wikipedia. Also the other SM will work with him, because they don't know anything about the fall.

Space_hoppo wrote:He's meant to wear black, at least thats what it says on wikipedia. Also the other SM will work with him, because they don't know anything about the fall.

I've seen no actual rules for him,but cypher was a legal ally to some imperial forces before.

As official sanctioned ally,cypher must be still in the service to his emperor.

No one knows whats going on in Cypher's head...

Well he's a guy so I'm guessing pizza and girls mainly...

Whilst Cypher should wear Black he probably wears green so people can link him to the DA's (Both us and in the fluff people) And from what I read in WD during the Black templar release it certainly sounded like Cypher and when I looked at other fluff elsewhere it also made it out to be him. The whole point is that he has no identity, he may be the compised guilt of the Dark Angels, or one of the Characters form Descent of Angels, it was all designed to make us guess, and create new secrets for the DA's now their 'big one' is out, and wasn't so good...