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Where are the rules that say you have to reveal what is in a transport before or during a game? Do you have to reveal what wargear is on a character? I think the game would be a lot more fun and tactically rich if you can keep secrets. I always play my friendly games this way, as long as it is on the character sheet and doesnt get moved around. The only GW game I have seen that specifically mentions what you can and cannot hide is Warhammer fantasy battle, because there is a magic item that reveals said secrets.

There actually is a rule that says specifically that you do not have to reveal what (if anything) is in a transport, what wargear/skills/gifts a character has, etc., or even the entire contents of a list.

Among tournament players, however, a convention (not universally followed) has risen where full disclosure is seen as more the norm. Part of the problem was the old 3.5 Chaos codex, which had several things that were very difficult to model (Strength, mutation), while Daemonvessels were kept secret.

As veteran skills and non-modelable wargear is getting phased out, the only real secrets left are transports, but the convention has remained, at least where I play.

You get told to reveal your army list at every tournament.

Since I know what you have, when you say 'I deploy terminators' I also know where they are.

During a game, if you can't remember (why can't you?) and you ask your opponent and he tells you to 'mind your own business' make sure you have a talk with the judges--being a class A pri** isn't something desired at the tournament scene, at least I don't think so.

Enough complaints and jackasses don't get invited back.

I don't think I ever mentioned a tournament anywhere in there. Neither did Grignard, who first raised the issue, or Krak_kirby, who continued it.

Also, just to clarify, is there actually a rule in the tourney rules that states that you have to say which unit is going in which transport? You wouldn't be able to tell, just by looking at an army list, which unit is in which vehicle when it comes to non-dedicated transports.

Edit: Oh, I missed your earlier post. Let's see:

This is not allowed. You MUST tell your opponent what is deploying, and into what. If you really think you can say 'this unit is deployed, and which of my land raiders it's in is my secret' well....

100%.

So, your argument for why you need to say what a unit is deploying into consists of. . . a row of laughing smileys? Why am I not surprised?

Judging by the firestorms that go on in YMTC (including the recent one with Mauleed's ork list and the definition of 12" plus), I'd be extremely hesitant to call someone a cheater. 1. You could be wrong; 2. You could be representing something as factual when there's a good faith difference in interpretation.

So if you aren't playing in a tournament, and you're playing in a friendly game--this is how you play?

Gotcha. No no, nothing else needs be said. 100%.

Stelek wrote:So if you aren't playing in a tournament, and you're playing in a friendly game--this is how you play?

Gotcha. No no, nothing else needs be said. 100%.

yah, I dont really go to many tourneys, so I'm refering to friendly games, where I guess it is totally up the opponents what rules they follow. However, It is usually easiest to come to an accord on rules that are written, unless it is a regular group with established house rules. I was saying I did not see anything in the big grey tome that said anything about what is secret and what is not.

BGB

Page 81

"Deploy Forces"

BGB wrote:"A note on secrecy. Your opponent cannot normally inspect your army roster, including asking you what is in each transport vehicle. Players are, however, free to share this information if they so wish."

That being said, in every tourney I've been in, you are required to provide a copy of your army list to your opponent. I would definitely take a peek at the roster regularly. Many times, you can discern it just by looking at the roster.

If they have a Dev unit with a Razorback and 2 troops units with Rhinos, you can figure out PART of it, at least.

In a "friendly" game, I'm happy to provide that info to my opponent. If he isn't... he won't be my opponent again. If you feel the need to be "secret," it's not a "friendly" game, IMO.


Eric

Eric, I don't see why it being a friendly game means you need to throw secrecy out of the window. Care to explain? I mean, if both players want to disclose everything, fine, but if I'd rather we both keep the contents of our transports to ourselves, what's the problem?

People want full disclosure to keep people, themselves included, honest. I can
see hidden riders working only if you write down on a card exactly who or what
is in the transport.

I can
see hidden riders working only if you write down on a card exactly who or what
is in the transport.

As I've been saying for like two pages already.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Eric, I don't see why it being a friendly game means you need to throw secrecy out of the window. Care to explain? I mean, if both players want to disclose everything, fine, but if I'd rather we both keep the contents of our transports to ourselves, what's the problem?

I agree. The last game I played, even though my opponent clearly marked what was carrying what on his list, that wasnt revealed until he chose to, which was fine by me. It added a lot of entertainment and tactical depth, as I knew he had Abbadon, but I didnt know what he'd come out of. I still won the game by the way. I think anything that makes you cover your bases and not have formulaic army lists is a good thing.