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What am I supposed to say to you Brian?

Nothing I guess is the best bet.

Good luck to you.

stjohn70 wrote:

Stelek wrote:Oh and Anthony Daniels telling the US players how not to cheat and be better men, man that always made me giggle.

Psst, that was Anthony Spiers... C3P0 wasn't playing WHFB.

D'oh!

JD21290 wrote:stelek, got anymore batreps up since yesterday?

Sorry I posted all 5 of my batreps. I only played 5 games.

Centurian99 wrote:

JD21290 wrote:and brian, stelek can be an ass at times, but when it comes to info on gaming stelek is pretty helpfull.

Helpful...as long as you can pay proper homage to the master. And believe the propaganda.

Stelek's way is not the only way - nor is it even the best way.

You can stop anytime, Cent.

I don't ask anyone to pay homage (and people locally know it pisses me off when someone does it).

If you have advice to offer, or in fact any real help to the community instead of ripping my efforts down why don't you make some of your own?

Contribute, not detract, for the love of mike.

whitedragon wrote:And regardless of the win, lose or draw, apparently WC_Brian didn't have an enjoyable experience, compounded by the fact that his expensive forgeworld model was broken by his opponent. Can ya blame him?

He said it was broken previously. I had no idea it wasn't a solid sword and touching it inadvertantly with my hand while grabbing my dice would break it.

In case Brian didn't hear me, I said I'd pay for it.

If it's irreparably damaged, I still will.

Hope you heard me that time.

Stelek wrote:What am I supposed to say to you Brian?

Why not just apologize to him for breaking his model?

i take it that it was the FW avatar model, not many large FW mods with a sword.


Edit: missed a few letters. *kicks keyboard*

whitedragon wrote:

Stelek wrote:What am I supposed to say to you Brian?

Why not just apologize to him for breaking his model?

I did about 20 times.

Thank you for assuming I don't pass the basic humanity check.

Stelek wrote:

whitedragon wrote:

Stelek wrote:What am I supposed to say to you Brian?

Why not just apologize to him for breaking his model?

I did about 20 times.

Thank you for assuming I don't pass the basic humanity check.

Hahaha QFT.

At a gamesday a friend has a similar experience with his backpack and a poor dudes nicely knitted jumper. (Actually its all my fault for messing with his keyring). Anyway the keyring snagged the jumper and proceeded to basically unravel the whole thing. My friend felt so bad and apologized repeatedly and offered to pay for it. Even though I felt bad I was trying not to laugh because the poor guy was missing several rows from his midriff.

Ahem, broken forgeworld models are no laughing matter though. I think people have to expect a degree of "risk" when they bring models to a place to game with people however.

So, what did stelek break? still havent found out.
and accidents will happen, due to crowding and the game your not allways aware where something is, or just how close it is.

ive had my DP dropped twice, they offered to pay for it on both occasions, i know it happens and accept it, all i did was borrow the guys glue since i lost mine. (i lose too much)

Read the batreps JD, it is mentioned in there...

thanks winter, a simple yes would have been sufficient though

when i get a model like that with a delicte piece i allways cut it off, pin it back, then its alot stronger.

stjohn70 wrote:Actually whitedragon, yeah - I can blame him... at least a little.

If you're going to give a person a 10 in Sportsmanship in the tourney, then don't come back to the forums and proclaim that person a jerk... you're making yourself look hypocritical - no matter the reasoning. By all means, give him a 6 and come tell how the new checklist is broken because you couldn't give him any lower. Just don't give a 10, then say he's a douche.

stelek wrote:When 4/5 opponents at major events and 2/3 opponents at local events cheat....well, it makes me think alot of people cheat.

Would it surprise you to know that I always give max sporting scores, even to jackasses? Even knowing these same jackasses are going to dick me with a poor score? It's meaningless, I'm not there to make nicey nicey--it's a competition. If you've forgotten what that really means, I'm talking to the wrong crowd.

sorry, couldn't resist

That aside, great reports Stelek. I'll admit I was very curious to see how you'd do after following your posts over the last year. I am glad to hear the tourney was a lot better, especially on the terrain front. I almost had to reread the post as I don't think I've ever read a long post, by you, that was that postive. Warseer down?

Anyhow, thanks again, much appreciated!

That was very artful kid....

Now that everyone has had a chance to lash Stelek, could we get back to helping some of us less experienced players learn more about tactics.

1. Under 4th edition Stelek took a lot of lashing for recommending 'static gun line armies', and claiming that they work. His DH army in this tournament reflected knowledge of 3 different armies, but at the base was a 'static gun line army'. Gee, it won games! I can see this build stopping landraider rush (multiple Lascannon), and maybe even Immolator rush (multiple lascannon). But, could you have handled the infiltrating Snikrot or flank attacking gene stealers (potentially from both sides). What was your thinking regarding these armies.

2. New player development-what were your young friends playing? Wish they had batreps up as well. Tactical analysis of a defeat can often be more educational than analysis of a win.

3. Mechanized Blood Angels-did someone once write to stelek saying 'do you want a piece of this??' (mechanized blood angel player). Perhaps this answered the question. Lascannon against jump marines-well, you might kill a few. Lascannon against hybrid jump marine/mechanized-now the lascannon's have a target worthy of shooting at, and the jump marines still have to face bolter torrent on the way in.....

4. Pie Plates-Didn't have to face any three whirlwind armies, dual basilisks, tri vindicator, or tri-prism eldar. Yes, you can spread out the DH/Guard, but it does negate the self screening cover saves. Did you worry about this as well in playtest?

Mike

mikeguth wrote:Now that everyone has had a chance to lash Stelek, could we get back to helping some of us less experienced players learn more about tactics.

I'll try. Dunno if others will, but they are welcome to.

mikeguth wrote:1. Under 4th edition Stelek took a lot of lashing for recommending 'static gun line armies', and claiming that they work. His DH army in this tournament reflected knowledge of 3 different armies, but at the base was a 'static gun line army'. Gee, it won games! I can see this build stopping landraider rush (multiple Lascannon), and maybe even Immolator rush (multiple lascannon). But, could you have handled the infiltrating Snikrot or flank attacking gene stealers (potentially from both sides). What was your thinking regarding these armies.

The way I deployed here:



Is how you deal with Snikrot or flanking stealers.

My army cannot stop vehicle hordes, Tau, or Land Raider rush armies very well. I fit in as much flex as I could, but being immobile meant people could play conservatively and win.

mikeguth wrote:2. New player development-what were your young friends playing? Wish they had batreps up as well. Tactical analysis of a defeat can often be more educational than analysis of a win.

They were running Tau Suits and twin-Lash/tri-oblit armies.

Like I said elsewhere, they aren't internet forum geeks and I doubt they will post anything.

mikeguth wrote:3. Mechanized Blood Angels-did someone once write to stelek saying 'do you want a piece of this??' (mechanized blood angel player). Perhaps this answered the question. Lascannon against jump marines-well, you might kill a few. Lascannon against hybrid jump marine/mechanized-now the lascannon's have a target worthy of shooting at, and the jump marines still have to face bolter torrent on the way in.....

Yep. Pure mech or pure jump pack are winners. Mixed, not so much.

mikeguth wrote:4. Pie Plates-Didn't have to face any three whirlwind armies, dual basilisks, tri vindicator, or tri-prism eldar. Yes, you can spread out the DH/Guard, but it does negate the self screening cover saves. Did you worry about this as well in playtest?

The indirect weapons do, but the direct ones don't.

I did worry about all of them in playtest, but you can negate all of them with proper deployment.

Only whirlwinds are really scary, because they can negate cover in the terrain you are sitting in where basilisks cannot.

mikeguth wrote:Now that everyone has had a chance to lash Stelek, could we get back to helping some of us less experienced players learn more about tactics.
1. Under 4th edition Stelek took a lot of lashing for recommending 'static gun line armies', and claiming that they work. His DH army in this tournament reflected knowledge of 3 different armies, but at the base was a 'static gun line army'. Gee, it won games! I can see this build stopping land raider rush (multiple Lascannon), and maybe even Immolator rush (multiple lascannon). But, could you have handled the infiltrating Snikrot or flank attacking gene stealers (potentially from both sides). What was your thinking regarding these armies.

Static gun line armies can work, but they have several inherent weaknesses. In Capture and Control missions you will be playing for the tie, and in Seize Ground missions you will be at a disadvantage trying to claim objectives.
As for Snitrot he will be a major problem for this army because he can wipe out several units, before the terminators counter-assault, and that will greatly diminish it’s shooting while the Orks close in on him. Against Genestealers he has to stay in the middle of the board and I think he could handle them. He would lose to a land raider rush because 4 Bs3 lascannons will hardly do anything to them. I was shooting the crap out of them with railguns on Friday and I could not kill them.

2. New player development-what were your young friends playing? Wish they had batreps up as well. Tactical analysis of a defeat can often be more educational than analysis of a win.

Wait till my batreps then, because there is a lot of loosing for you to learn from!

4. Pie Plates-Didn't have to face any three whirlwind armies, dual basilisks, tri vindicator, or tri-prism eldar. Yes, you can spread out the DH/Guard, but it does negate the self screening cover saves. Did you worry about this as well in playtest?

Stelek surprised me and did very well at the GT, but he benefited from favorable matchups with unaggressive opponents. His army has several weaknesses beyond the one’s I pointed out above. He would be hard pressed to beat a Mech army. He has 4, BS3 lascannons and that is it for long range anti-tank. If a Mech army can take those out, then he will lose. Also if an army can out-shoot him he will lose because he is a static army that can’t move. There are a lot of armies out there that I would like to see how his army matches up against like Orks, shooty Chaos and Nids.

Stelek wrote:
I don't ask anyone to pay homage (and people locally know it pisses me off when someone does it).

Judging people by what they do, not what they say, is always good advice.

Of course, I'm not saying you demand that people praise you to the skies - but you do seem to have problems with people who disagree with you. Your online persona seems absolutely convinced that you Know The Truth About 40K, and anyone who disagrees with you is worthy only of scorn, derision, and insults. You talk a good game...but the strength of your positions gets tainted by the fact that anytime someone challenges you, you immediately descend into personal attacks, fallacious reasoning, or simple revisionism of your previous statements.

I've met WC_Brian in person. Not best buds with him or anything, but he seemed a stand-up guy to me, and I didn't notice any great discrepancies between how he behaves online as opposed to how he behaves in person.

You on, the other hand, seem to be well regarded in person, and generally likable, at least going by your sportsmanship scores, and the fact that people who know you personally are quick to defend you. But online, you're rude, unjustifiably judgemental, incredibly egotistical, and self-righteous - which brings to mind other posters here in the past, like Mauleed.

But there's one supreme difference between you and Mauleed - when he was wrong, he always 'fessed up. Made even those who disagreed with him, take him seriously.

You on the other hand, are intellectually closed-minded, unwilling to consider alternative points of view, and known to take liberties with your recollection of events.

Stelek wrote:
If you have advice to offer, or in fact any real help to the community instead of ripping my efforts down why don't you make some of your own? Contribute, not detract, for the love of mike.

I prefer the Socratic method, personally. Makes people think more, instead of just mindlessly regurgitating dogma and doctrine. The last thing that we need in the hobby are people who mindlessly copy the latest army builds or gameplay tactics. What we need are people who are willing to push the hobby forward by encouraging it to grow and develop.

Blackmoor wrote:Static gun line armies can work, but they have several inherent weaknesses. In Capture and Control missions you will be playing for the tie, and in Seize Ground missions you will be at a disadvantage trying to claim objectives.
As for Snitrot he will be a major problem for this army because he can wipe out several units, before the terminators counter-assault, and that will greatly diminish it’s shooting while the Orks close in on him. Against Genestealers he has to stay in the middle of the board and I think he could handle them. He would lose to a land raider rush because 4 Bs3 lascannons will hardly do anything to them. I was shooting the crap out of them with railguns on Friday and I could not kill them.

Capture and Control favors a gunline army, I think. You can sit your entire army on yours, and shoot him off of his. I did exactly that several times.

Sieze Ground isn't so bad really, it's usually "there is the one objective we both need to fight over" and it's in mid-field. I can hold my own and fight things out in the middle. Half of my army is meant to do that (the 24 Sisters, 10 Stormtroopers, and 7 Grey Knights).

Land Raider Rush is difficult to stop, however the two large Sister squads can absorb pretty much everything a GKT or DW or Chaos (ok, any land raider rush really) army can spit out of the raiders and then you get shot to pieces.

Oh and for the record, I rolled exactly one 'kill' shot with a Lascannon all weekend. 6,6,6. Anyway, you can't sit there with your units in your Raiders at 12" waiting for the next turn to tank shock through my front units, because 8 BS4 meltaguns is not any kind of fun for Land Raiders. What Lascannons won't do, Meltaguns will.

FWIW, Railheads are great against everything but AV14. I think Broadsides are better bets now.

Blackmoor wrote:Stelek surprised me and did very well at the GT, but he benefited from favorable matchups with unaggressive opponents. His army has several weaknesses beyond the one’s I pointed out above. He would be hard pressed to beat a Mech army. He has 4, BS3 lascannons and that is it for long range anti-tank. If a Mech army can take those out, then he will lose. Also if an army can out-shoot him he will lose because he is a static army that can’t move. There are a lot of armies out there that I would like to see how his army matches up against like Orks, shooty Chaos and Nids.

Well I did play 2 mech lists. They weren't full on mech lists, but I did playtest heavily against Tau, Eldar, and Land Raider rush armies (not that I faced them at the LVGT). Close games, but the multiple layers of the onion my army presents doesn't make it easy.

Meltaguns are also faster than you might think. Yes, you can run away from them...and then what? You aren't doing much when running away.

There are not a whole lot of armies that can outshoot me at this points level. They do exist, but players generally don't run them.

I don't generally have a problem with shooty Chaos (my old Chaos army was 'shooty' than most and it had a bad time against this army).

Orks, really depends on the build. I don't run any flamers or blast weapons, but I do put out alot of fire downrange. My own Ork army both outranges and outmaneuvers my DH army and tables it quickly.

Shooty nids are irritating, but I have alot of targets they have to waste time killing...and their troops just don't survive the firepower I put downrange. CC MC nids are another story, they come too fast and I can't get away at all so if I don't kill them they hurt really bad even with all the ways I have to hurt them. Having to rely on lasrifles to carry a game is not a happy place to be usually.

You aren't incorrect in any substantial way, I'm just speaking out loud really.

Congratulations man! I look forward to reading the reports.
I am kind of hoping to make it to Baltimore this year just for the hell of it. If you make it over to this side of the continent, I will stop over and say hello (particularly if you have such a recognizable army.)

I think Centurian99 just hit the nail on the proverbial head.

G