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Neconilis wrote:

windswept313 wrote:

Neconilis wrote:Has anyone else mentioned the fact that the Emperor isn't a white guy? If they have I'm sorry that I glanced over it, but that has always been one of the most interesting things to me considering the culture of the people who created the 40K universe.

ok what is he then.. either way its not the space marines im really concerned about its the whole human race as depicted in 40k.. just too narrow a vision.

He was born in central Anatolia, so that would likely make him Turkish.

Thanks for that info. Like isaid i understand how all the space marines can look alike from emperor to primarchs to troops. Lets forget about them as being narrow in vision.. i understand the whole master race thing.. George Lucas did the same thing with his fantasy world.. Lets talk about all the supportig cast lol.

windswept313 wrote:

5. Why did the women have to have big boobs... lol... and all amazon chicks. oh yeah and why dont amazon chicks look like they are from the amazon?

you are aware the rainforest was named after the mythical society of warrior women not the other way around, so amazon warriors (mythical) wouldnt be south american.

"Where are the people of color in the far future?"
- In codex catachan

"Would you buy an Asian army, Black Army(african Descent), Latino Army, Middle Eastern Army?"
- they did one: Tallarn, roughly middle eastern.

Im a bit confused by the OPs comment that just because the salamanders have dark skin, that doesn't make them 'black'.

How exactly would you have GW reinforce their 'blackness'? How would you even define 'blackness', other than through skin colour? Would you have Salamanders driving around in low rider rhinos & rapping about the emperor's glory? That isnt 'blackness' thats just a stereotype.

All black people are different, as are all other people. You can't say one black person is more 'black' than another except in the most literal sense that they might have a darker shade of skin.

As well as this, I have a couple of other points. From a purely fluffy perspective, The lack of minorities represented in game could be defended on the basis that by the time we're as far into the future as the 41st millenium, there wouldnt be any 'black' or 'white' people as distinct groups. Thousands of years of mixing would mean we'd all look the same. As well as that, you mention the game 'not matching up with the real world', but is it supposed to? this is a game about war in the far future... its not supposed to be an accurate representation of anything.

Skin colour of the human models is purely a matter of personal preference. Ive met plenty of people who have armies with a mix of different complexions. I used to paint some of my space marines black. There is no rule that says any human models have to have a certain skin colour or belong to a certain group.

I think If GW attempted to bracket ethnic groups within armies like that, they'd get far more flak about negative stereotyping than they would praise for including minorities.

Most black guys Ive met arent shallow enough to look at warhammer as a hobby & think 'hey, that Space Marine is black... Im black too! wow, I really identify with that, I think Ill take this game up as a hobby' Most people just don't make choices like that.

windswept313 wrote:

reds8n wrote:@ Mr. Windswept.

Indeed, but I think they really don't want to make or risk models that might seem like a cartoon caricature on racial grounds. I take the point and agree with regards to the fluff and pictures, but : In the stories they often don't really say one way or the other. Sure I tend to picture "character X" as Caucasian, but that's my heritage so I default there. And for the artwork, I think they try to only really depict what they produce generally, and again AFAIK, all/most of their in house artists are Caucasian, and again I think it's more a default mindset thing. Area for improvement there though I agree.

Cool now we are where i wanted to get to.. do most of us agree that it wouldnt hurt to improve on the depiction of humanity in 40k? Thats all.

To not get very much in depth with it because I have to get going soon, I certainly don't have a problem with seeing the breadth of humanity depicted far more broadly. In essence I know the future isn't simply full of white Europeans, so go ahead and have figures and art with different racial characteristics, doesn't bother me. That being said, if this became some sort of heavy handed PC endeavor, well that's going to cause a similar type of resentment in me like when I lose out on a job to someone because of gender, race or ethnicity alone. Not all white people are evil monsters determined to make the world all white and full of European tropes. I'm not saying you're saying that at all, in fact you aren't from all that I can tell, but as a white guy that's how I'm made to feel sometimes; and I'm really tired of being told to feel ashamed of my race and culture for things I took no part in.

P.S.: To go along with your original post I wouldn't mind seeing more women as well. Not things which go against the truths of the universe like female space marines, but more female guard in art and models would be nice for example.

Neconilis wrote:
P.S.: To go along with your original post I wouldn't mind seeing more women as well. Not things which go against the truths of the universe like female space marines, but more female guard in art and models would be nice for example.

I agree with Neconilis. I think one avenue of diversity that doe need improvement is the women. Space Marines are all men due to the genetic manipulation practices, and Orks are all male due to being fungus and genetic manipulation, but what about Eldar, IG, Inquisition, Dark Eldar, Tau...there is room for more female models there.

how do you tell if a Tau is male or female?

& I thought the Eldar were s'posed to be a 50/50 mix of male & female too...

*shrugs*

Honestly, I expect this thread to get locked once the mods read it. You've had 3! pages in a single day, it's got to be a record. I smell troll.

BTW, I didn't really think about the racial angle until this thread. Frankly, I think that more racial because it's making a big deal out of the racial make-up, or lack thereof, in a system that doesn't make any statements about race.

Not locking yet, but have edited a comment.

When I started my Cadian IG, I painted them up as about an equal mix of pale-white, medium-tan, and black-skinned guys. Also with a good mix of each in various roles (officers, special weapons, ordinary lasgunners etc). It seemed like a mix would represent the "teeming masses of humanity" of 40k better than would just a single colour of skin.



(Sorry for the poor quality of these images, these were taken a few years back with crappy lighting - also before I'd learned how to do a base properly, heh)

Though I haven't read any of the GW novels, I have to say that based on the rulebook and codex the IG fluff is so nazi-flavoured that having an all-white IG army would be creepy. In addition, from an aesthetic point of view I like the way the racial mix breaks up the monotony of a horde of guardsmen.

It would be great if GW put out female guardsmen (guardswomen?) too. I know someone did a limited run custom casting of some female Cadians, but unfortunately I never got in on that.

Sadly, I can't recall *ever* having seen any other mixed-race IG armies on the tables (not that I get to many tournaments).

somecallmeJack wrote:How exactly would you have GW reinforce their 'blackness'? How would you even define 'blackness', other than through skin colour? Would you have Salamanders driving around in low rider rhinos & rapping about the emperor's glory? That isnt 'blackness' thats just a stereotype.

And it's not even a black stereotype - low rider cars are characteristically Latino / Chicano, not black.

Now, if you wanted t model Salamanders with oversized codpieces, *that* would be more of a traditional black stereotype...

OK on that note, I think its best if we all just move on here.