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Emrab wrote:Now I might get cruxified for this comment but when it is a multi shot wep. Like a twin linked heavy bolter I just roll all the dice at once however i roll 2 diffrent colors of dice and declare which ones are ment be the originals and which ones are ment to be for the reroll.

Then you're cheating. This gives completely different odds, in your favour.

Persoanlly I think that whilst it is statistically correct to roll two dice for a single twin linked weapon, it takes a minimum of extra time to re-roll the dice and is less confusing. In addition, someone with a less than satisfactory understanding of probability may see someone else do it and not realise that it doesn't work out right for more than one dice.

Here's the simple version (hopefully). If you have say a twin linked heavy bolter you have three shots and can reroll misses. By rolling six identical dice all at the same time, you have given yourself three rerolls every time even if you would only be permitted two or even one rerolls. By rolling one color for the original rolls and another for the rerolls, you've still given yourself three rerolls as you can pick the successes that may not have occured had you rolled them individually. The only way you can roll six dice all at once and not skew the results in your favor is to have one color dice for each original shot and it's reroll.

Gaaaaagh!

I gave up on this thread halfway down the first page!

A couple of posters corrected the initial error within a few posts, and two more corrected some of the misconceptions about probability within half a page. Some of you simply do not understand probability.

whocares and Centurian99 are correct, and I say that as a maths teacher (although I admit the majority of my teaching has been science).

Dreadnought damage details are different and multiple re-rolls need to be done as described, but it is all there in black-and-white. I may read this thread again when I get in from work tonight and see how it has managed to reach a third page.

I've always just rolled one then rerolled it, but thats mostly to keep things organized in my head.

And for those who don't see where the difference is, picture a twinlinked assaultcannon.
First i roll some dice for the regular method: i roll a 2 and 5, one hit, one reroll, i reroll a 1, so 1 hit total.
Now i take the same results but treat them as if i had just rolled them as a batch of 4 dice:
I had a 2, 5, 1 and i'm missing a diceroll? i need to roll one more, hey it's a 6, so now i have 2 hits total.

The only situation where this shortcut is fair is when used on one single-shot, twinlinked gun.
If you want to use this shortcut on multishot twinlinked guns or multiple one-shot twinlinked guns,
you need to roll each shot as set of 2 dice, either sequentially or in groups of 2 dice of seperate colours.
At this point it clearly ceases to be a shortcut and becomes a confusing mess.
By the way the whole thing is more fun if twinlinked is done in two steps,
it keeps the tension going for a bit longer, and tension is one of those little things that can make a game more enjoyable.

If you have a problem with you opponent rolling in this way, ask them not to. Unless you're playing a total dill weed, they should abide to your request.

So bottom line... if you are firing a single shot weapon, like a TL Lascannon then rolling 2 dice choosing the best is the same as rolling sequentially. If you are firing a multiple-shot weapon or several models with TL weapons, just roll the first shots, pick up the misses and roll them again. Otherwise, you have to have N colors of dice pairs where N is the number of TL shots.

OTOH, if you loved those boxes of 64 crayons and have a ton of dice you go right ahead. Just carry a chalkboard with you so you can go medieval on someone with your probability skills when they ask you to prove they are equivalent.

Homer