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I think that option B is RAI.

However,with the logic of a volley of pinning weapons shooting simataniously that would call for 1 test can be looked at differently. Say you're in a squad of 20 men running up the battle field and snipers drop four of them,well it is likely that you and the rest of the squad will have the will to keep on going. Now,lets say the snipers drop ten instead of four,you and your men might look at each other and hit the deck. My point is that volume could make the logic for multiple pinning test from the same unit. I would prefer option A to be the rule,but compared with the way the rest of the rules behave I think option B is RAI.

I voted B.

I'm taking the RAI (rules as intended) to mean that a unit firing pinning weapons causes a pinning test if wounds are taken, regardess of how many shots were fired.

Eg, I believe that if a unit suffers one wound or more from a pinning weapon, they will have to test for pinning. If you come under fire from a weapon that pins you down, it doesnt matter how many times you get hit, simply getting hit would make you think about getting the hell down.

Although, if two units with pinning weapons caused pinning wounds, then I would say take two pinning tests. Such would be the stress of coming under fire from two directions.

And how about the last combination, Kaej?

Several pinning weapons fired by one unit causing several wounds?

Choice A makes me want to model up a bunch of FWs with pulse carbines.

I Picked A

It makes perfect sense and seems clear

I put option B.

Keep it simple stupid.

Oh wow well I always played it with option B and believed Option B to be the correct way since 4th edition but now reading some of the responses I gotta admit I am converted and lean towards option A now.

Reason for this change and I strongly advice everyone else rooting for option B (the way I was until now) to consider what has been said.

"It is more likely for a unit of people shooting pinning weapons to keep an enemy ducking for cover than when you only have 1 person in the squad with a pinning weapon"

That makes perfect sense. It really does, consider it in real life, one person pointing a gun may scare you stiff or you may be brave and try to fight back after all it's only 1 person right?

But when it's a whole group of them, you are more likely to wet your pants and think 'there's nothing I can do, i have no way out of this one' because there's strength in numbers.

So the correct choice in RAW and RAI must be option A.

99MDeery wrote:B clearly if a unit can only take on Morale check a phase then it follows that a unit can only take one pinning test in a shooting phase as it is a leadership based test.

Even though the rules say multiple tests can be taken?

I'd simply re-write the rule as follows;

"If a unit other than a vehicle suffers any unsaved wounds from a unit with pinning weapons, it must immediately take a Pinning test. This is a normal Leadership test. . .As long as the tests are passed, a unit may be called upon to take multiple Pinning tests in a single turn, but if a unit has already gone to ground, no further Pinning tests are taken."

I suspect the rules were re-worded away from the above to get around the possible scenario of having (for example) Maugan Ra fail to wound, but the Guardian unit he is attached to wound with their catapults. The RaW would then be that the unit has a pinning weapon, so any wounds from that unit, even those from non-pinning weapons, cause pinning. That would be an even worse RaW problem.

(Even though that invalidates the pinning-spam army I had designed. I have never played 3rd or 4th Edition and I interpreted the rules as option A initially when I was reading the 5th Ed rules. I now believe that RAW says per weapon, but RAI is per unit.)

Ok, so how has this played out over the last few months? Since this debate has been out so long and the RAW are very clear but the RAI are debated it seems this would have been a FAQ if it was wrong.

So is it being played you take a pinning test from every pinning weapon or unit now?

I really am curious because if the RAW are standing, then I will actually find a place for a unit of snipers in my games instead of the shelves.

I play it RaW, in that you take a test for every unsaved wound caused by a Pinning Weapon

i.e. if a Squad of Sniper Scouts causes 4 Unsaved wounds, you take 4 tests and are pinned if you fail one.

If you are in the wishy washy RaI crowd I have a rationalisation for you too:
Squad A Loses 1 Guy to Sniper Fire.
Squad B Loses 6 Guys to Sniper Fire.

Who is more likely to be pinned down?

I actually love this change from 4th. For those who are new to 40k, it was a sort of "in Joke" about how useless Pinning was. This boosts it to the realms of usefulness.

Well to be honest the first I saw this argument was today, over on warseer and the thread for the most part went with the RAW. I just want to know so I should if I should go buy some snipers and convert them for my IG. If this is the rule they actually may be worth fielding, its still debatable.

To me it just seems that there should have been a FAQ if the RAI were what they really wanted, I mean its a HUGE diffrence and actually may explain the sniper nerf that wasnt needed.

The group I play with (including myself) make one test per unsaved wound. Granted, if I could ever get more then one wound with a pinning weapon, that might mean something.

Mars.Techpriest wrote:The group I play with (including myself) make one test per unsaved wound. Granted, if I could ever get more then one wound with a pinning weapon, that might mean something.

QFT. Marine Snipers rarely hit enough to do any damage. The only ones worth using/are reliable are Eldar Pathfinders, now that they Ignore Armour on a 5+ to hit AND a 6 to wound.

Having done this on Warseer, and had a member there talk about parses and other such, I say it is A.

To the people saying B - show me where the reference to a "unit" firing is in the rules, and I will accept I'm wrong.

I've been playing B. Looks more like A is correct tho, we may have to change this.

just for clarifcation, if you're playing option A....
A unit that suffers 2 wounds/casualties from 2 pinning weapons suffers 2 pinning tests.
A unit that suffers 2 wounds/casualties from 1 pinning weapon takes...1 pinning test?

Trasvi wrote:I've been playing B. Looks more like A is correct tho, we may have to change this.

just for clarifcation, if you're playing option A....
A unit that suffers 2 wounds/casualties from 2 pinning weapons suffers 2 pinning tests.
A unit that suffers 2 wounds/casualties from 1 pinning weapon takes...1 pinning test

You take 1 test. You take a Single test for every WEAPON that caused at least 1 unsaved wound.

I don't get why you needed to cross out a line of my post and then agree with it?
2 weapons - 2 casualties - 2 pinning tests. Thats one test per weapon. Thankyou.

I think its because some weapons can fire more then one shot ... eldar sun rifle has 6 shots but would only cause one pinning test

My group still play A.

Trasvi wrote:I don't get why you needed to cross out a line of my post and then agree with it?
2 weapons - 2 casualties - 2 pinning tests. Thats one test per weapon. Thankyou.

Errr, try reading your own post. If a Weapon has eleventy Billion shots and causes 456 wounds, you only take 1 test because it is one weapon.

A unit that suffers 2 wounds/casualties from 1 pinning weapon only takes 1 test.
A unit that suffers 2 wounds/casualties from 2 pinning weapons only takes 2 tests.

Gwar! wrote:

Trasvi wrote:I don't get why you needed to cross out a line of my post and then agree with it?
2 weapons - 2 casualties - 2 pinning tests. Thats one test per weapon. Thankyou.

Errr, try reading your own post. If a Weapon has eleventy Billion shots and causes 456 wounds, you only take 1 test because it is one weapon.

A unit that suffers 2 wounds/casualties from 1 pinning weapon only takes 1 test.
A unit that suffers 2 wounds/casualties from [b]2 pinning weapons only takes 2 [/b]tests.

I think Gwar! was trying to say that your example was redundant rather than incorrect.

X wounds from Y weapons = Y pinning checks.

Scott-S6 wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Trasvi wrote:I don't get why you needed to cross out a line of my post and then agree with it?
2 weapons - 2 casualties - 2 pinning tests. Thats one test per weapon. Thankyou.

Errr, try reading your own post. If a Weapon has eleventy Billion shots and causes 456 wounds, you only take 1 test because it is one weapon.

A unit that suffers 2 wounds/casualties from 1 pinning weapon only takes 1 test.
A unit that suffers 2 wounds/casualties from [b]2 pinning weapons only takes 2 [/b]tests.

I think Gwar! was trying to say that your example was redundant rather than incorrect.

X wounds from Y weapons = Y pinning checks.

I may also have been drunk.

I voted B. RAW also states that shooting takes place simultaneously, all wounds would be allocated at the same time and so the unit would only make a pinning test that one time. A little more credence to the 'writers mistake' thing.

Slackermagee wrote:I voted B. RAW also states that shooting takes place simultaneously, all wounds would be allocated at the same time and so the unit would only make a pinning test that one time. A little more credence to the 'writers mistake' thing.

So, nothing stops them taking more than 1 test at a time.