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Facet_X wrote:

On your turn you make 5 out of the 8 WBB rolls. Why do they have to join another unit? Aren't they the same models from the unit that was downed?

The WBB rule states that when they get back up they move into coherency with the nearest unit of the same type. All of the models in the unit they used to belong to were killed, which means they are treated as 'battlefield debris.' They do not form a new unit or reform their old unit when they stand back up, they have to move (sometimes completely across the table) to join the nearest unit with the same type of model.

Of the 3 that are still down, you want to use the Monolith. You can't just take the 3 can you? From what I've read you need the whole unit. Which in the wording above is 8 models strong at this point. You'd take them all off and re roll.

In the wording of your example though, you have those 5 Warriors join another like unit. If they did join a 10 man unit, and you wanted to use the Monolith for the re roll of the WBB. Would you just take the 5 that just joined? or All 13 of them?

This is where it gets confusing. The models that are down are seen as nothing more than "battlefield debris." The only way they would be eligible to come through the Monolith and reroll their WBB would be if the squad they would have moved into coherency with comes through the portal. These downed models would then join that unit.

I'd say you'd have to take all 13. You can't just take part of the unit.

I didn't mean to imply that you would be splitting up the Warriors. The entire other squad that the 5 Warriors who successfully self-repaired themselves joined would have to come through the portal to allow the remaining Warriors to make their WBB rolls again.

I know this is off topic and I happen to agree with the whole unit is wiped out, but I'm curious how this little situation would work as one of my friends plays Necrons.

Well, hopefully I was able to explain things well enough.

coredump wrote:The models were part of the unit, and then got damaged. Do you have any rule that says they stop being part of the unit?

Under the We'll Be Back special rules section, it says damaged Necrons are seen as battlefield debris. It also says that once a Necron repairs itself, it moves into coherency with the nearest unit of the same type and "joins" the unit. If it was already in the unit, the WBB rule would not have to specify that it joins the unit.

When the unit is taken through the monolith, do you have any rule that will allow the damaged models to go through, if they are not part of the unit?

Now, this is the part the really seems weird. While the Monolith seems to consider them part of the unit, the WBB rules seem not to. Either way, I don't see how a Monolith's special rule should ever effect a sweeping advance. The Monolith does not mention a Sweeping Advance specifically, so I do not see how anything in its profile would apply.

It would have to specifiy it needs to join the unit, even if its the initial one, as essentially the WBB roll resets the unit ownership of each model - it is reset to "no unit" and you then determine which is in range.

The WBB rules do not say they are not part of the unit at the time they are battelfield debris - that is the problem. You have no rule saying they are not part of the unit, while the monolith and the general rules of the game mean they must be - until the Necron turn when you check for WBB conditions and reset unit ownership.

They may be "battlefield debris" but this does not say they are not part of their unit, and the FAQ "fall back", monolith rules AND the general rules of the game (model on table? still part of the unit) mean you have to be.

We are not saying Monolith rules say anything about SA, we are saying that the monolith rules can only work if they are still part of the unit. If they are still part of the unit SA MUST remove them.

If a squad of necrons is COMPLETELY destroyed, not one single model in that squad (regardless of any other factors) is eligible for a second WBB via a Monolith.

I know you're going to wonder, here is why:


Unit Green is killed to the man. At this point, unit green ceases to exist, and the models belong to no unit whatsoever.

Unit Yellow is available to give unit green WBB rolls. Ex-Unit Green rolls, and 5/10 models stand up, and now become part of Unit Yellow.

The remaining models from Ex-Unit Green, still being part of no unit whatsoever cannot be targeted by the Monolith as the portal can only transport units.

If Unit yellow also had WBB rolls to make, and there were failures, it can benefit from the portal, as (here is the important part) the downed models actually belong to to the unit.

This is why models awaiting WBB are removed along with the unit they came from if it is swept. They still belong to the unit as long as there IS one, and will be moved with that unit until WBB rolls are made. Even if that 'move' is off the board. The reason the rules specify they can join, and become part of any other unit is to guarantee a WBB roll as long as the WBB conditions are met.

Under the We'll Be Back special rules section, it says damaged Necrons are seen as battlefield debris. It also says that once a Necron repairs itself, it moves into coherency with the nearest unit of the same type and "joins" the unit. If it was already in the unit, the WBB rule would not have to specify that it joins the unit.

It says that to be complete, since the 'closest unit' may not be the same unit. There is nothing wrong, or rule breaking, with 'joining' a unit you already belong to. (ICs are another example of this.) Alternatively, if you prefer, it could be that it stops being part of the unit once it makes the roll, and then rejoins.
But again, there is nothing in the rules that says it stops being a part of the unit. Unless you can provide such a rule...

While the Monolith seems to consider them part of the unit, the WBB rules seem not to.

Not quite. The Monolith rules *only* work if the damaged necrons are still part of the 'parent' unit. The WBB rules also work just fine if the damaged necrons are part of the parent unit.
Further, there is *nothing* in the WBB rules that says they stop being part of the unit.

Either way, I don't see how a Monolith's special rule should ever effect a sweeping advance. The Monolith does not mention a Sweeping Advance specifically, so I do not see how anything in its profile would apply.

It is not affecting a SA. It is showing more proof that the damaged necron is part of the parent unit.

Since the damaged necrons are part of the parent unit, they are effected when the unit goes through the monolith.
Since the damaged necrons are part of the parent unit, they are effected when the unit falls back.
Since the damaged necrons are part of the parent unit, they are effected when the unit is caught in a sweeping advance.

See the pattern?

" The only way they would be eligible to come through the Monolith and reroll their WBB would be if the squad they would have moved into coherency with comes through the portal. These downed models would then join that unit.

This is not true. First, downed necrons would never move into coherency. Second, they would not belong to the second unit.

The entire other squad that the 5 Warriors who successfully self-repaired themselves joined would have to come through the portal to allow the remaining Warriors to make their WBB rolls again.

Again, there is nothing in the rules to support this.



Facet, also realize that all 13 warriors would have to be within 6" of a standing warrior in the first place. (yadda yadda, tomb spyder....)