Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Frankly, I find your attacks against my character rather than my argument contrary to DakkaDakka Posting rules and would appriciate an Appology before this has to go any further.

Not an all out attack on your character, its just that you seem to fins the slightest part of wording and try and twist it and pry it apart.
so he does have special weapons.

Using just the gauntlets: I-1 +1 attack
Sword: I- normal +0 attack

The gauntlets are counted as 2 powerfists, now, that cannot be used with another weapon.
For example, you couldnt equip a standard model (if you could) with 2 fists and a sword and use them all, i dont see how this would differ.


and you want an apology or you will take it further? sorry, hell is still boiling so not a chance

Just remember that all past words mods have had with you get taken into account when you say something

Saldiven wrote:The OED is no more the definitive, be-all-end-all, comprehensive, better than anybody else dictionary than the New American, the Funk & Wagnall's, or any other "complete and unabridged" dictionary. It merely happens to be a dictionary published by Oxford University Press.

Apart from the fact they have been defining what is english for Hundreds of years? Yeah, Lets ignore that and listen to some American Dictionary Company who cant even Spell Colour Correctly.

Saldiven wrote:We native speakers know what sounds correct.

Last I Checked, I was a native Speaker (You know, being born, and growing up in England!), whereas you are someone who happens to speak my Language (and a Horrendously Bastardised version when compared to real English, no offence intended, just point out fact).

Saldiven wrote:Do you wield power in the same manner as you wield a sword?

Damn Right you do.

Saldiven wrote: If you had your wallet in your pocket, and someone asked you if you had it, would you say, "Yes, I am currently wielding my wallet even as we speak?"

It's a little strange but perfectly Acceptable.

JD21290 wrote:Just remember that all past words mods have had with you get taken into account when you say something

So you are saying because I have offended one or two people in the Past I am no longer protected by DakkaDakka's rules?

Gwar! wrote:

Tri wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Utterly wrong.
You Can Choose to either use Both Power Fists or a Power Fist and the Power Seord.
Using the Two Powerfists Gramts you S8 I1 and no Bonus attack because you are weilding more than 1 Special Weapon (2 Power Fists and a Power Sword)
Using the Power Fist and the Power Sword Lets you Choose to make all your attacks at Either S8 I1 or S4 I5, again with no bonus attack because you are weilding more than 1 Special Weapon (2 Power Fists and a Power Sword)

How much more simple does it need to be ?</Sarcasm>

Gwar this is my last word on this since you seem to have it stuck in you head that all weapons cumulate together. The very top of the heading says

Fighting with Two single-handed weapons
Some models are equipped with two single handed weapons they can use in close combat, with the rules below for the different possible combinations...

So what do we get from that?
1)We can only fight with 2 single hand weapons max
2)We are using the weapons
3)We pick the rule for the Weapons combination we're using

Can you prove Weild does not mean any and all weapons they own? No you can't. It's Ambiguous and GW has to Erreta it. Until then it's legal to play it either way.

Of Course you can just Instead Emoragequit from the thread. Can't stop you I Guess. -Shrug-

Said i wasn't going to come back but thats just too wrong to ignore.
READ THE HEADING FOR THE RULE! YOU ARE FIGHTING WITH TWO SINGLE HAND WEAPONS! NOT THREE, FOUR OR FIVE, JUST TWO. ONE IN EACH HAND THESE ARE THE WEAPONS YOU ARE WIELDING BECAUSE IT IS A DOING WORD. THAT MEANS THEY'RE BEING USED. THE END.

and relax

So you are saying because I have offended one or two people in the Past I am no longer protected by DakkaDakka's rules?

No, im just amused that you are willing to alert the MOD's if i dont apologise for doing something you have done numerous times.
Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black





I think Tri summed it up pretty well

At risk of ignighting this farther, I'd have to agree that:

He may attack with both powerfists, giving +1 attack, I1 str8, ignoring armor
OR
He may attack with the powersword, attacking at I5, Str4, ignoring armor
OR
He may attack with no weapons, attacking at I5, Str4, not ignoring armor

Just because you have a weapon doesn't mean you have to use it. A model just equiped with a powerfist may chose to 'not use' the powerfist, and go at Iniutive with basic strength and not ignore armor.

As much as I hate to agree with Gwar (and I hate agreeing with Gwar), I think he might be right.

While the rules on p42 are headed "Fighting with Two Single-Handed Weapons" the particular line in question says "When it is their turn to attack, these models must choose which weapon to use that turn, but they NEVER get the bonus attack for using two weapons."

It says never. Never is pretty hardcore.

Maybe you could argue that Marneus has THREE weapons not TWO weapons, and so this rule doesn't apply to him. That's about the best I can come up with.

I remember seeing this same argument over chaplains with bolt pistol, powerfist + crozious last year. I don't remember how it turned out. Maybe somebody could look for it.

Tri wrote:Said i wasn't going to come back but thats just too wrong to ignore.
READ THE HEADING FOR THE RULE! YOU ARE FIGHTING WITH TWO SINGLE HAND WEAPONS! NOT THREE, FOUR OR FIVE, JUST TWO. ONE IN EACH HAND THESE ARE THE WEAPONS YOU ARE WIELDING BECAUSE IT IS A DOING WORD. THAT MEANS THEY'RE BEING USED. THE END.

and relax

Yes, it says fighting with two handed weapons, I never said you ever use more than Two in a Round, Please pay attention, or does my lack of CAPSLOCK make my posts unreadable? What I am saying is that the rule that says "When it is their turn to attack, these models must choose which weapon to use that turn, but they NEVER get the bonus attack for using two weapons." Nowhere does it say that if you happen to have Three weapons you somehow Ignore this Rule. The Fact is, Calgar has 3 Weapons, Two Power Fists and a Power Sword. because he must Choose what one to use (as per the Multiple Special Weapons Rule) he may NEVER get the Bonus Attack.

Mars Techpriest, models equipped with a special weapon are actually required to use it. There is no option to attack "normally". There was a whole other discussion on that issue last week. Turns out the rulebook is actually pretty clear about it.

Mars.Techpriest wrote:At risk of ignighting this farther, I'd have to agree that:

He may attack with both powerfists, giving +1 attack, I1 str8, ignoring armor
OR
He may attack with the powersword, attacking at I5, Str4, ignoring armor
OR
He may attack with no weapons, attacking at I5, Str4, not ignoring armor

Just because you have a weapon doesn't mean you have to use it. A model just equiped with a powerfist may chose to 'not use' the powerfist, and go at Iniutive with basic strength and not ignore armor.

Incorrect

In 5th edition, you cannot choose to not use a Special Weapon, you must always use one if you have it.
I.e. you cannot "turn off" your Weapons like you could in 4th.

Gwar, dont sort people into groups due to post count, otherwise you should be on your fething knees looking up to me

You could have simply pointed out that you cant turn off special weapons



Edit: Gwar, dont change your bloody post now

JD21290 wrote:you should be on your fething knees looking up to me

I already am -Wink Wink-

P.s. you had about 10 months head start on me

Ok, make sure your atleast 20 feet away though
i can still smell a hint of troll in the air.
Stop eating fething goats and take a bath


PS: i spent a fair few months out in iraq and away from here
hence why i usually get my "we are missing you" PM's from the machine spirit lol

I think maybe this thread should be locked before we all turn red with rage...red is a color.

RustyKnight wrote:I think maybe this thread should be locked before we all turn red with rage...red is a colour.

Fix'd for you

Sorry, just seems fitting



PS: Frazz, if you steal this pic i will hunt you down :K


PPS: Who is turning red with rage?
me and gwar allways talk this nicely to eachother

JD21290 wrote:


Sorry, just seems fitting



PS: Frazz, if you steal this pic i will hunt you down :K


PPS: Who is turning red with rage?
me and gwar allways talk this nicely to eachother

Gwar! aged 2!

Must be before the diet kicked in im guessing?
looking at your age 7 pic you dropped some weight

That's what I get for trying to answer when I don't have the book with me. I apologize for my incorrectness.

Bad, sneaky u.

Off topic- I've actually started accidently using the British spellings of some words (like armour and colour). Not that I have any problem with Brits, but it's annoying to get those words underlined with a red question mark next to them.

Meh, after using alot of american sites i tend to miss out alot of "U's" from time to time

Same language, different spellings, why? lol

Tri wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Utterly wrong.
You Can Choose to either use Both Power Fists or a Power Fist and the Power Seord.
Using the Two Powerfists Gramts you S8 I1 and no Bonus attack because you are weilding more than 1 Special Weapon (2 Power Fists and a Power Sword)
Using the Power Fist and the Power Sword Lets you Choose to make all your attacks at Either S8 I1 or S4 I5, again with no bonus attack because you are weilding more than 1 Special Weapon (2 Power Fists and a Power Sword)

How much more simple does it need to be ?</Sarcasm>

Gwar this is my last word on this since you seem to have it stuck in you head that all weapons cumulate together. The very top of the heading says

Fighting with Two single-handed weapons
Some models are equipped with two single handed weapons they can use in close combat, with the rules below for the different possible combinations...

So what do we get from that?
1)We can only fight with 2 single hand weapons max
2)We are using the weapons
3)We pick the rule for the Weapons combination we're using

I have to assume that Gwar is kidding here. I found it slightly funny.

Anyway, there's no need to worry about how many attacks he gets. Ultrasmurfs all die the same.

Ultrasmurfs all die the same.

but they never die quick enough :(
and calgar is a pain in the ass to kill unless you throw ghaz at him while on his waaagh! move
(7 S10 klaw attacks and a 2+ inv save )




Edit: Bollocks! didnt see it was 2:10am lol, need to be up and get working on the garden again tomorrow -_-
so much for my "time off"
later people and trollthingymabobGwar!

Actually then, if we are going by a strict RAW readin then we dont apply the whole series of rules under the heading *Fighting with two single-handed weapons* to Calgar.

If we do indeed take the words equipped and wielding to mean the weapons that the figure has in toto, then we have to come to the conclusion that Calgar has 3 weapons so this whole area of the rules doesnt apply to him at all. It only applies to those characters armed with two and only two weapons. Not one weapon, not 3 or more weapons.

As long as we are going by the RAW that is.

Sliggoth

So calgar Can never get any attacks?

Yay!

Well, no. There would be no way to read the rules so that Calgar gets no attacks. He would simply not be able to use any of the rules for attacking with two weapons. So he would have his base listed attacks only.

Therefore if we do indeed take the view that any model with more than two weapons is always wielding/ equipped with them, then all of the rules listed under fighting with two single-handed weapons do not apply. So no model with 3+ weapons ever gets a bonus attack under any of the cc rules (unless of course the codex has some special rule). This interpretation would have the unfortunate effect of allowing models with multiple special weapons to get the bonuses for all of their special weapons however. Since the only limit on stacking of special weapon abilities is under the fighting with two weapons section then it would be possible for a model to have MANY special abilites under this version of the rules.


This all hinges on the reading of the rules to mean that a model with 3+ weapons is wielding all of his weapons tho, instead of the model chosing which two weapons to wield.

The RAW hangs together quite well if we use the precise definition of the word wielding to mean using tho. A model with 3+ weapons has to wield 1-2 of them in a cc round. This is simple, clear, and RAW. If we use a loose definition of wielding, then we venture into areas where we could see some strange combinations of effects.


Sliggoth

All I have to say is this:

If, during a game, you try to tell me that Calgar doesn't get an additional attack from the Gauntlets while NOT using his sword, I will immediately strap a sword to my belt, and some boxing gloves to my hands and we'll proceed to count how many times I can punch you (or your little sister, whoever looks easier to take) while running and yelling. (Personally I bet it's 0, cause we'd all be laughing too hard)

Mr.Tangent wrote:My roomate plays SM and just picked up Mr.Calgar and had a valid question. If Mr.Calgar is equipt with "Gauntlets of Ultramar"(his only option) which is 2 powerfists with built in bolters, does he strike at Inititive 1(powerfists always strike last) Or does he strike at his regular Inititive 5??

thx , Tangent.

Here is the OP's question just to remind you all.

sourclams wrote:1

Every post, or just about every post after sourclams' post is off topic.

Shouldn't we be assuming that given any particular word, the correct interpretation of the rules is the simplest, most common definition of that word, and if that works within the context of the rules we use that and if it doesn't we move to the next most used interpretation of the word.

In other words, we have a rule with 2 possible interpretations but one is signifcantly simpler than the other and so we should be assuming that this is the correct interpretation.

Tri wrote:Gwar this is my last word on this since you seem to have it stuck in you head that all weapons cumulate together. The very top of the heading says

Fighting with Two single-handed weapons
Some models are equipped with two single handed weapons they can use in close combat, with the rules below for the different possible combinations...

So what do we get from that?
1)We can only fight with 2 single hand weapons max
2)We are using the weapons
3)We pick the rule for the Weapons combination we're using

Okay no where there does it say you are limited to 2 single hand weapons. It says some models are equipped with two single hand weapons. How are you reading a limit where there is none in the text? You are just making stuff up. The wording, and clearly the intention is that you can either choose to make S8I1 +1A attacks or S4I5 attacks. This whole debate is silly.