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Savnock wrote:Hey, does anyone have commentary on the nature and quality of Avalon Game Convention events?

I notice that they're behind all of these Con-Quests. I checked their site, but found little info on the company other than a brief staff list. I wonder if that "Mondo" is Don Mondo?

Regardless, I'm going to get my hiney in gear and hope to see other Pacific NWers at the Seattle event in January. Anyone else going to that?

Okay, time for my rant. Mondo is Mondo Vega, who is all about making $ with his conventions. Last year there was Conquest NW, run by a volunteer group. A couple of issues occurred during the 40k tournament:

1. There is only a prize for Best Overall, Best General, Best Appearance, and Best Sportsman (From the rules it looks like they are doing away with Player's Choice). Yeah, you heard it, Second Best Overall & you get NOTHING unless you were the Best General, Best Sportsman, or Best Appearance. Every other tournament I've played in gives prizes to the 2nd & 3rd overall, if not 2nd & 3rd for every category. At least you'll get an invite to the Vegas GT if you finish 2nd this year.

2. Best Appearance had a different army that he used to get his paint scores up then the one that he played. (They adjusted the rules this year)

3. The pairing system used had some flaws, and because of that a lot of games started late. I had one friend only make it through 3 turns in one game because of the issues.

4. The scoring for Apperance was all over the board, some people were offered rescores and got them, while others did not have the opportunity.

I had signed up to go to the ConQuest Oregon event back in October, which was canceled the week before it was suppose to happen.

If I had an alternative I'd go instead, but having an Indy GT take place a half hour from my house means I'm going to go. But that being said, I'd much rather give my money to Zen at TSFT or the SCGL at the SoCal Slaughter.

However, you still get 5 games of 40k against some good players, which for me, is really what a GT is about.

mikhaila wrote:

Timmah wrote:What would be great, is if all these events got together and standardized a few things. Like point size, and maybe a generally accept set of scenarios.

I disagree. The heart of the independent tournament scene is that they are different, not cookie cutter. Different clubs and groups run different style events.

Realize that GW are not creating a national tournament system, with cookie cutter events that lead to a national tournament. What they have done is offered support to independent tournaments, and as one of the perks of being on the circuit, you can send 2 people to the national event.

To standardize all the events would simply mean 2/3 of the people running them would say "feth that", and quit doing them. Lots of work, time, energy, and sometimes your own money out of your pocket. Putting people in straight jackets on how to run their events would simply kill them.

I said the event people should get together. Even if its just agreeing on a "standard" point total. Basically GW is just saying hey, if you win an event you can come to our 1 GT. Because we can't bother to do anything more.

Also, I love how all tournament gamers got labeled as WAAC gamers in this thread.

Help me out. People are complaining because its a sort of Big 16 event? People have been asking for something like this for years-an invite style best of the best. I'm no GW fan but really, you're whining over this?

Personally we need to have pact to report HBMC winning seven tournaments, then have everyone throw their games, just so he has dinner with Jervis. We'll have cameras rolling and security standing by.

People are complaining because its a sort of Big 16 event?

People are complaining because it's the internet. That is what you do on the internet.

I thought the internet was for porn?

Timmah wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

Timmah wrote:What would be great, is if all these events got together and standardized a few things. Like point size, and maybe a generally accept set of scenarios.

I disagree. The heart of the independent tournament scene is that they are different, not cookie cutter. Different clubs and groups run different style events.

Realize that GW are not creating a national tournament system, with cookie cutter events that lead to a national tournament. What they have done is offered support to independent tournaments, and as one of the perks of being on the circuit, you can send 2 people to the national event.

To standardize all the events would simply mean 2/3 of the people running them would say "feth that", and quit doing them. Lots of work, time, energy, and sometimes your own money out of your pocket. Putting people in straight jackets on how to run their events would simply kill them.

I said the event people should get together. Even if its just agreeing on a "standard" point total. Basically GW is just saying hey, if you win an event you can come to our 1 GT. Because we can't bother to do anything more.

Also, I love how all tournament gamers got labeled as WAAC gamers in this thread.

Why bother to standardize anything? Really, how would you? I'm running 3 events on that circuit. It's a ton of money, time, and effort put forth by me and my group. We get some help from GW, we get to send two people to another event. Why should my event influence other tournaments? Why should other ones dictate what I run? And how would we 'get together' and decide? Put 70 of us in a cage and fight it out, winner decides the format?)

One of the events for WFB that we are going to run is 2999 points. It's the defining part of the tournament, and came about because it was what a group of very skilled veteran players wanted to see happen. This year we get to run it again, and with GW support. If we had to make it comply with some standard, it wouldn't happen.

Not trying to dump on you, it's just that standardizing these events is the exact opposite of the spirit behind them. Gamers who love the hobby running tournaments for other gamers. Different formats, different ideas.

Empchild wrote:
and please read the post too. I said If I am wrong please tell me as this is my interpitation of it. Instead NERD RAGGGGGE.

You are the only one with Nerd Rage. Your nerd rage made you make a statment that was ignorant and false.

I had to waste my time to do reseach and look for links for scoring of the different tournaments to prove that you were wrong. If you took your time and checked to see if you were right, you would not waste my time instead of saying "I might be wrong". Next time look to see if you are wrong before posting.

Blackmoor wrote:

Empchild wrote:
and please read the post too. I said If I am wrong please tell me as this is my interpitation of it. Instead NERD RAGGGGGE.

You are the only one with Nerd Rage. Your nerd rage made you make a statment that was ignorant and false.

I had to waste my time to do reseach and look for links for scoring of the different tournaments to prove that you were wrong. If you took your time and checked to see if you were right, you would not waste my time instead of saying "I might be wrong". Next time look to see if you are wrong before posting.

so your saying I wasted your time huh_ ok truthfully I care less but I do find it funny that you wrote that.So back on topic yep still think this is a bad idea of gw's, but I am just one so take it however you want and bash me I really care less. I do get a laugh that and some enjoyment out of you wasting time on me.. kinda makes me feel special I read your blog and I understand your a hardcore tourney player I am too, but I still dont overall like the way they are doing this as Ithink it's cool they found a way to include the indy gt's into theirs but I feel they arent targeting the other wins their. I am saying just because you win overall does not mean that you are the end all be all. Honestly it means hey in the end the dice played well for me being no matter how you argue it you can have all the strategy in the world but if the dice constantly role ones on your too hit then it does yo ulittle good if you catch what im saying?

Empchild wrote: it does yo ulittle good if you catch what im saying?

Not in the slightest.

Ozymandias wrote:

Empchild wrote: it does yo ulittle good if you catch what im saying?

Not in the slightest.

Ditto on that. Read it a couple of times to see if I was missing something. Correct use of spaces between words, correct spelling, and, oh hell, i dunno, logic? are things that would make that post easier to read.

what are the odds that gw will put up links to these tournaments?

Sigh in the end it means dice wins the day. Is that simplistic enough? No matter how good you are as a player if your dice role bad well your "skills" won't matter at all. As such this means that their is a strong bit of luck since well it's a dice game. That said I am stating that maybe they should have sportsmanship should be included because that is the most important I feel more then anything. Is that simplistic enough for you because I really can't dumb this down any further?

No, because your posts are a strain to read. Proper sentence structure and punctuation would greatly help.

What you are saying has little to pertain to the debate at hand. All you are doing is shooting at something like sentence structure because you have no actually arguement to what I posted. If you do state it and we can discuss it otherwise im done posting about this because you are derailing the thread. The end point is I much like others do not agree with GW's actions. Now if you have something legit to say then say it otherwise dont say anything just pm me.

Empchild wrote:Sigh in the end it means dice wins the day. Is that simplistic enough? No matter how good you are as a player if your dice role bad well your "skills" won't matter at all. As such this means that their is a strong bit of luck since well it's a dice game. That said I am stating that maybe they should have sportsmanship should be included because that is the most important I feel more then anything. Is that simplistic enough for you because I really can't dumb this down any further?

I disagree with you.

I do think that sometimes when you are facing a player who is of equal caliber, with an equal army, that there are times when the game comes down to a critical dice roll or two, but for the most part dice so not play that large of a factor in who wins or loses a game unless one player gets incredibly lucky/unlucky.

Although you may not like the tournament circuit, and I have some problems with it as well, at least I see it as a beginning, and it is better than nothing. Hopefully they will improve on it, and make it better each year.

GW is not running their own GT's and instead is using that money to support 70 events, and then running one invitiational event. Those 70 independent events will produce a broad variety of tournaments and other events, all across the country. Not just in 4 places. The control of those events is in the hands of hobbyists and gamers.

It's noted that you disagree with what they are doing. Everyone I know is hugely excited about next year.

im not saying by any account that I will boycott the tourney being as I love to go to these indy events and meet new gamers and at times I do meet some bad ones but overall I have had a lot of great games at these events. Plus I do believe in healthy competition and I feel if we spend all this time on our models why shouldnt we show them off and maybe want some awards to put a little claim to fame for our hard work. And Blackmoore I agree it is better then nothing I just feel overall they maybe they could have done say best sport and best overall as at the minimum this is what the hobby means to me and many others.

Empchild wrote:I just feel overall they maybe they could have done say best sport and best overall as at the minimum this is what the hobby means to me and many others.

It's quite possible that if a TO wanted to set it up that way, they probably could. That's going to be up to the TO to work it out with Ed Spettigue, and GW.
Having spent 5 hours with him today discussing the circuit, I have to say that he has some very good ideas, was easy to work with, and very accomodating.

I for one am thankful that GW is doing SOMETHING.

Whether you like this system or not, you have to admit that it adds spice to this years tournaments.

You dont really need standardisation. So the top guy from Adepticon's Gladiator (with forge world) goes up against the Ard Boy's champion (2500pt games). I think its safe to say that WHATEVER standard Vegas will be using for the 40k tournament...it will still be 40k. The two winners from those two tournaments obviously know 40k so it should be a decent game.

We're gaming with toy soldiers here. I dont care about exact standardisation across the entire circuit. I'm just looking to go to a tournament and have fun playing, trying to get to vegas, and if I get to vegas, try to have dinner with Jervis.

....so I can tell him about how competetiveness is indeed part of this hobby, and be living proof.

Just be glad GW is doing SOMETHING instead of ignoring us tournament goers completely like they did over this year.

I'm thankful for the attempt, perhaps it will improve over time.

Deadshane1 wrote:I for one am thankful that GW is doing SOMETHING.

Whether you like this system or not, you have to admit that it adds spice to this years tournaments.

I'm thankful for the attempt, perhaps it will improve over time.

Good chance that things will improve, based on the feedback given. Each of the indie tournament organizers is now part of a loose group that GW can use as a sounding board, and get feeback from. Very good move on their part, as it' a direct line to the tournament scene.

I love the idea they are going with...I am just pissed off with the locations...or lack there of..in several areas.

but for the most part dice so not play that large of a factor in who wins or loses a game unless one player gets incredibly lucky/unlucky.

As the true master of ones I disagree with you whole heartedly here. Dice can play a major role in the game which would be why we use them.

There's three 40k events in Texas that are drivable for me (San Antonio, Austin and Dallas) and one in Arkansas (Fayetville), so I'm happy. More than GW ever did for the south central U.S.

Frazzled wrote:Help me out. People are complaining because its a sort of Big 16 event? People have been asking for something like this for years-an invite style best of the best. I'm no GW fan but really, you're whining over this?

Personally we need to have pact to report HBMC winning seven tournaments, then have everyone throw their games, just so he has dinner with Jervis. We'll have cameras rolling and security standing by.

You used to have your choice of GTs to attend and the cost included hotel and lunch. Now you have to claw your way to the top and beat down all the WAAC gamers. Only the event promoters are billing this as a good thing.

G

Change is always difficult...........

Last year we had nadda....
The previous two years with our first time circuit were awesome....

They changed the circuit scoring from one year to the next on player feedback............

They rushed and got a circuit in place which is dependant on the indies that wanted to be in it.....

Which was something we all were screaming for(a circuit), it may not have GW GT's in it but it does have a invitational which is something we have been asking for.....

Hopefully more indie's will jump on board and who knows they may even add GT's again...................

This is a step in the right direction..........

I just hope that they support it, IE, results post from all tournaments or at least a good link. Maybe some stories and photos of the players and armies that have qualified so far, listing game club affiliation and what else that club is doing for the hobby.....

I'm telling my other half I qualified anyway just for an excuse to go to Vegas, so im there no matter what...LOL....

I would only have two questions for Jervas, one is it open bar and two who's picking up the check...

Fishboy wrote:

but for the most part dice so not play that large of a factor in who wins or loses a game unless one player gets incredibly lucky/unlucky.

As the true master of ones I disagree with you whole heartedly here. Dice can play a major role in the game which would be why we use them.

That's like saying the guys who consistently win at the World Series of Poker always get the best cards. There's a reason we always see many of the same names at the final table in every event.

Modquisition on.
Gentlemen, a reminder politeness is required. Let remember rule #1 and maintain civility.

There is a codicil. Lets try to keep our posts grammatically correct with punctuation. It really helps the argument.

Modquisition off:
Two internet cookies for the person who can find two or more errors in the above. If you only find five, you're not drunk enough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Green Blow Fly wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Help me out. People are complaining because its a sort of Big 16 event? People have been asking for something like this for years-an invite style best of the best. I'm no GW fan but really, you're whining over this?

Personally we need to have pact to report HBMC winning seven tournaments, then have everyone throw their games, just so he has dinner with Jervis. We'll have cameras rolling and security standing by.

You used to have your choice of GTs to attend and the cost included hotel and lunch. Now you have to claw your way to the top and beat down all the WAAC gamers. Only the event promoters are billing this as a good thing.

G

So regional GTs now replaced by one invite only GT? is that the gyst of it? I didn't know they still had GTs actually.

And how would we 'get together' and decide? Put 70 of us in a cage and fight it out, winner decides the format?)

Thunderdome could work...LOL.

[Gentlemen, a reminder politeness is required.]

cookie number one that is gramatically incorrect you would at least want an "of" after reminder
[Let remember rule #1 and maintain civility. ]
it would be let's as in let us remember

[There is a codicil. ]
fragmented sentence, plus the there you used is out of context it is their "there" is used as to describe a place.

[Lets try to keep our posts grammatically correct with punctuation. It really helps the argument. ]
another fragmented sentence as it would be "with punctuation as it really helps"

[Modquisition off:
Two internet cookies for the person who can find two or more errors in the above. If you only find five, you're not drunk enough. ]

I got 4 does that mean two cookies?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Green Blow Fly wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Help me out. People are complaining because its a sort of Big 16 event? People have been asking for something like this for years-an invite style best of the best. I'm no GW fan but really, you're whining over this?

Personally we need to have pact to report HBMC winning seven tournaments, then have everyone throw their games, just so he has dinner with Jervis. We'll have cameras rolling and security standing by.

You used to have your choice of GTs to attend and the cost included hotel and lunch. Now you have to claw your way to the top and beat down all the WAAC gamers. Only the event promoters are billing this as a good thing.

G

So regional GTs now replaced by one invite only GT? is that the gyst of it? I didn't know they still had GTs actually.

You're the cookie winner so far empy.

Frazzled wrote:You're the cookie winner so far empy.

WOOT I FINALLY WON SOME THING... actually not true my recruiter told me I won the second time I enlisted..... or was that lost hrmmm.