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Breotan wrote:

Aduro wrote:Come on.... Group Hug!!

I say put the gloves on and let us watch on Youtube.

Ah your one of those kids aren't you.

Thread has gone way off topic fyi. Take the hugs and cuddles to pm and work out your differances I say.

Honestly, I think all of you are being a little childish. Save that, alot childish.

Dan, find another group to game with. Don't even waste your time with those gentlemen if you can't even agree on what a marine with a bp/cc weapon is. (In all fairness though, really? Really???? As another aside, the current Chaos codex shows a group of marines with cc/bp's as "Chosen", which are also armed with Bolt Pistol, CC weapons and Bolters like grey hunters. So, obviously GW doesn't care as much as you guys seem to.)

To Roi and the rest, lighten up. His "proxy" of a chaplain as Cassius is pretty acceptable to me (It's a chaplain, and it's blue, and the Cassius model is horrible.), and his space wolves are grey. What more could you really want?

If you have other problems with him that aren't related to his mini choices, than just say it, rather than appearing to be a big tool like you are right now.

Seriously, Dan, find a new gaming group. That seems like it will make everybody happy.

Unbelievable.

What the OP Doesn't seem to have mentioned, at least not from what I can see, is whether or not he did anything to differentiate his Grey Hunters from his Blood Claws.

I mean, if you model a Grey Hunter with a bolt pistol, how would you know the difference between him and a standard Blood Claw?

I know the answer, and it's not a trick question...

Also, in a WYSIWYG tournament or league, a proxy is not legal.

Ah but in Roi's first post he said it was a map-based campaign for FUN.

Munch Munch! wrote:Ah but in Roi's first post he said it was a map-based campaign for FUN.

Right, but Roi has apparently had problems with the OP in WYSIWYG games as well. In a WYSIWYG game, a jump pack chaplain doesn't get to be Cassius because the player says so, it needs to be modelled so.

Ditto that with Mark of the Wulfen. There's literally a mark that belongs on the face.

I know, I said that a jump pack chaplain would have to be that; a jump pack chaplain.

whitedragon wrote:Honestly, I think all of you are being a little childish. Save that, alot childish.

Dan, find another group to game with. Don't even waste your time with those gentlemen if you can't even agree on what a marine with a bp/cc weapon is.

Seriously, Dan, find a new gaming group. That seems like it will make everybody happy.

Acceptable compromise.


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Munch Munch! wrote:Ah but in Roi's first post he said it was a map-based campaign for FUN.

Map based campaign for fun with my friends.

waaay OT at this point either solve this [retty soon or move this to pm

Fighting 8th wrote:

Munch Munch! wrote:Ah but in Roi's first post he said it was a map-based campaign for FUN.

Right, but Roi has apparently had problems with the OP in WYSIWYG games as well. In a WYSIWYG game, a jump pack chaplain doesn't get to be Cassius because the player says so, it needs to be modelled so.

Ditto that with Mark of the Wulfen. There's literally a mark that belongs on the face.

So big furry claw-hands couldn't possibly represent a models ability to have lots of rending attacks? Some bad-arse GSed "power" swords that look unique couldn't represent lots of rending attacks? I think you're missing the point of the game even having a modeling aspect. The BGB has a picture of a "scratch-built" deffkopta that doesn't even have blades. A space marine with the same gear as a special character is the same thing as that special character. It's not really that much of a stretch.

Is this a thread about models being modelled to tournament-legally represent what they are supposed to be?

If so, I think it has been made clear by a ton of people already that they are.

Or is this a thread about all kind of emo gak going on at your local game store?

If someone keep causing trouble, cheats or behaves like an a-hole then don't let him play. Simple as that.

TBD wrote:

If someone keep causing trouble, cheats or behaves like an a-hole then don't let him play. Simple as that.

That is exactly what is going on.

Roi Kuro: I think the problem here is that if you don't want somebody to play in your league, you say "I don't want you to play in my league." Don't start looking for excuses or justifications, just state your decision.

Saying he can't play because of some trivial (and ultimately wrong) WYSIWYG criticism of his Grey Hunters only clouds the issue.

The issue is that you don't like the guy, and don't trust him to play a fair, fun game. Done.

Just yesterday I played a game against a guy who had almost nothing painted, a number of proxy models, etc. etc. He's also a classy guy, and fun to play. Something tells me you'd have no problem with this guy in your league.

Honestly, all your criticisms of the guy seem less than reasonable. It sounds like all this strife starts with his painting and modelling. I play a LOT of games against people with unpainted models, proxy models, etc. To harp on something like that is unreasonable. It also puts the target of the harping on the defensive, so that when you start saying his vehicles don't get cover, he's thinking you're just trying to job him again.

That said, it sounds like all of this is just a fundamental conflict of personalities. It sounds like you don't want this guy playing in your league, and you've tried to pressure him out with nitpicky harassment, rather than being straight and saying "I don't like playing with you." And, honestly, I can see why you might not like the guy, considering that you're trying to brush him off, and he's still trying to get in on the league. If I have a hint that somebody doesn't like me, I don't want to hang out with him. If I have clear proof, even more so.

Guys, time to face reality. Dude isn't going to play in the league.

Roi Kuro wrote:[How would you model "Mark of the Wulfen"? Just out of curiosity.

Typically with markings similar to tatoos. Maybe in blue or red. It wouldn't hurt to have a lot of them.


take care

Roi Kuro wrote:How would you model "Mark of the Wulfen"? Just out of curiosity.

Well, probably with more ornamentation then other space wolves, maybe an emphasis on close combat, running legs, etc.



Can i put a shout out to any mods reading this to lock the thread? This is getting out of hand, and these guys should just take it to Warseer or somthing.

I agree, i think that this has probablyrun its course now, as I understand it there is nothing wrong with the grey hunters by RaW and WYSIWYG they are carrying thecorrect wargear for thier unit entry (as shown by codex wolves), however, Roi does not like Dan (or the way he playsat least) and so does not want him to play, end of.... right?

Should I press the alert button then?

igotsmeakabob11 wrote:Now you tell me there are some marines from the Wolves codex.

Yes, it is a different army from SM. SW don't have tactical squads so stop expecting SW players to model thier GH like tacticals.

You put in front of me a squad equipped with bolt pistols and close combat weapons. I'm going to say that they're Bloodclaws.

And you would have a 50% chance of being wrong for no other fault than your own.

For me to identify them as Grey Hunters, they'd need a few bolters in there. Technically, they'd need only one bolter.. but I wouldn't be satisfied with one. I'd expect at least 50% of the marines to have bolters on their person.

And per WSYIWYG, the BRB, and his codex, he would be fine with modeling them with BP and CC only.

Now, this is just me. It isn't my army, but I might be playing against them. I choose whom I will and whom I will not play against (in a typical game).

Except in any GW sanctioned tournement where by regulations you would have to play him as his models are WYSIWYG.


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Fighting 8th wrote:I mean, if you model a Grey Hunter with a bolt pistol, how would you know the difference between him and a standard Blood Claw?

Easy, BC have red and yellow pack markings on thier right shoulder pad. GH have black and red pack markings.

Fighting 8th wrote:I mean, if you model a Grey Hunter with a bolt pistol, how would you know the difference between him and a standard Blood Claw?

Easy, BC have red and yellow pack markings on thier right shoulder pad. GH have black and red pack markings.

Give that man (or lady) a cigar! I was starting to wonder if anyone was going to put the answer out there...

I'm a guy . But seriously, igotsmeakabob11, how the heck did you deal with SW in 3rd and 4th when GH WERE armed just like BC! Previously, GH were armed with only BP and CC (Bolters were an optional upgrade)!

so let me get this right, lets just say you know me im a cool guy liked by all members of your GAMING COMMUNITY ive taken grey hunters armed all with bolt gun and ccw, would you stop me playing in your games cos im cheating?

Roi Kuro wrote:

alexwars1 wrote:Hmm. I would disagree with using non standard bearing standard bearers (unless he gave me a really good count as reason), but since, here, he has done nothing wrong from a modeling perspective, i dont see the problem. He has armed grey hunters with what grey hunters are armed with.

How would you model "Mark of the Wulfen"? Just out of curiosity.

Their are alot of ways:

No weapons

Use 13 Co. Wulven Models

Use the wolf head from the new sprue

Tatoo his face, per previous fluff, wulven were marked with tatoos on thier face

As long as the model is readily distiguishable from the rest of the pack, then it is fine per WYSIWYG.


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Wolf_Guard wrote:so let me get this right, lets just say you know me im a cool guy liked by all members of your GAMING COMMUNITY ive taken grey hunters armed all with bolt gun and ccw, would you stop me playing in your games cos im cheating?

What happened is that Roi Kuro didn't want Dan to play in his league (his perogative) so he came up with a stupid excuse about his models not being WYSIWYG rather than just telling Dan that he can't stand to play with him.

This prompted Dan to ligitimately ask the Dakka Community if what he did was wrong in modeling his GH with BP and CC only. The Dakka Community correctly told Dan that it is fine for him to model his GH with BP and CC. It should be noted that Dan correctly kept the tournement runner's name anonymous; he didn't personally attack anyone. He has also been more than civil in the face of personal attacks.

Regardless, Roi Kuro should have just told Dan the truth from the beginning rather than coming up with a misleading excuse. Moreover, Roi Kuro should not have come into the DakkaDakka forum and publicly humiliate and lambast Dan.

wyomingfox wrote:Regardless, Roi Kuro should have just told Dan the truth from the beginning rather than coming up with a misleading excuse. Moreover, Roi Kuro should not have come into the DakkaDakka forum and publicly humiliate and lambast Dan.

Roi:

wyomingfox wrote:What happened is that Roi Kuro didn't want Dan to play in his league (his perogative) so he came up with a stupid excuse about his models not being WYSIWYG rather than just telling Dan that he can't stand to play with him.

This prompted Dan to ligitimately ask the Dakka Community if what he did was wrong in modeling his GH with BP and CC only. The Dakka Community correctly told Dan that it is fine for him to model his GH with BP and CC. It should be noted that Dan correctly kept the tournement runner's name anonymous; he didn't personally attack anyone. He has also been more than civil in the face of personal attacks.

Regardless, Roi Kuro should have just told Dan the truth from the beginning rather than coming up with a misleading excuse. Moreover, Roi Kuro should not have come into the DakkaDakka forum and publicly humiliate and lambast Dan.

Summed up pretty well. Thanks Phyrixis and wyomingfox.

The final say on the matter seems to be that Roi is unwilling to work towards a resolution, and thus the game will be played Sans-Dan. This is something that really saddens me, as I had nothing against Roi prior to this, and that it cuts me off from playing what promised to be a cool 40k campaign with a number of awesome people. Such is life, and I'd like to thank everyone for putting up with this mess of a thread.

Dan dont worry dude this guy seems like a ass and youve came across as a cool guy. Im sure you will find another group to play with who arent judgemental the fact he called you a cheater even tho you didnt know a rule, giving tht 40k has so many rules that arent so easy to understand to a beginner he should have given you the benefit of the doubt but oh well.
Good luck infuture.

As its been said a number of times, as long as there is some form of markings on them for the help of the oppenent then everything should be fine.

Im honestly wondering how so much drama can be had from this. Dont like someone? tell them instead of making up excuses. If they had questionable tournament habits before and they have since STOPPED tha is called learning and is a good thing. -_-

And find another group to play with, it will help in the long run cause when your playing with people who are relaxed you learn instead of getting your head bit off.

I have to agree with the last few posts. You played things horribly roi and came off as kind of an ass hat. I think you owe Dan an apology even if you wont let him play in the league for giving him such a shoddy answer to try to keep him out of it. It pays to be upfront with people.

And yes Dan paint the appropriate squad markings on them then model them with what ever you want. Its not your fault the opponent did not read your codex.

Good luck in your games ahead danny boy.

Dan wrote:The final say on the matter seems to be that Roi is unwilling to work towards a resolution, and thus the game will be played Sans-Dan. This is something that really saddens me, as I had nothing against Roi prior to this, and that it cuts me off from playing what promised to be a cool 40k campaign with a number of awesome people. Such is life, and I'd like to thank everyone for putting up with this mess of a thread.

It's probably for the best. You composed yourself perfectly in this thread, even after Roi stormed in like a mad grox and started flinging dung. It's understandable that he would be upset if you, for example, showed him the thread on purpose to attempt to change his mind, but he has certainly shown us his personal qualities.

Roi, the prize pool should have nothing to do with it. If you didn't want him to play, you should have simply said so. Perfectly WYSIWYG models should have nothing to do with it. If you didn't want him to play, you should have simply said so. Screaming in here like a schoolboy about 'Dan did this, Dan did that...' was silly. If you didn't want him to play, you should have simply said so, without making petty excuses and character judgements.

What Dan did was raise a valid argument with a neutral forum. What you did, Roi, was make a fool out of yourself. I don't doubt what you've said about him - I have, by strange coincidence, known a large number of irritating wargame players named Dan in my time. I'm playing alongside one in a team tourney next weekend. He's going to use my units as cover, I just know it... but I won't diss him publically.

Only to his face.

lol ye to his face, im still a total noob i dont know all the rules and ins and outs but i hope people will take there time to explain things to me not rant and rave calling me a cheater everyone must learn at some point and me being a noob i know how much there is to take in at once im very lucky to have the internet as Dakka members have helped me alot with queries and tips ive found my painting has improved dramatically along with my knowledge even though im still yet to play a game, but could sum1 answer me this are my greyhunters illegal having a boltgun with ccw every1 is armed like this but as they arent all painted yet it wouldnt be a problem to adjust?

Of course there's nothing wrong with having bolters and CCWs. Some of you kids may not have heard, but it's called True Grit...