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WoC

Decrease Sigvald's points by 25.

Make Sigvald a lvl 2 Sorcerer, knowing all the spells from the Lore of Slannesh.

Decrease Vilitch's points by 25, make him cause fear.

Give chosen another gimmick, right now they're paying 3 PPM for a roll no the EOTG table and +1 WS.

Make Chariots cause fear(?)

I'd be happy with a GW-printed, GW-bound Dogs of War army book having pretty much any rejiggering of the army balance.

All it needs to do is compile all of the various Dogs of War units in one place, and update the 6E / 7E rules for 8E.

I agree with what Durandal suggests for Lizardmen and a few other changes I would like to see:

Bring back Blessed Spawnings, they don't even have to be too different (made a thread about this, actually); Giving a Priest one of these allows it to change it's magic lore.
Lord Mazdamundi ignores miscasts like Lord Kroak.
Tehenhuain knows all Lore of Beasts spells and gets a +1 to armour save.
Named heroes are WAY to expensive (as said already).
Give Skinks (ranked and skirmishers) access to short bows for 1pt/model
Temple Guard +1WS
Cold One Cavalry points drop (by at least five) and/or given "heavy spears" which count as lances.
Charm of the Jaguar Warrior back to what it was.

Karon wrote:WoC

Decrease Sigvald's points by 25.

Make Sigvald a lvl 2 Sorcerer, knowing all the spells from the Lore of Slannesh.

I'd be happy to see this. I think Sigvald is a very characterful choice who could use a little boost to be usable on the field. His vanity (stupidity) rule could also help balance out knowing all spells once in a while.

Dark Elves
I'd like to see Executioners get at minimum a second attack and access to 35pt banners. This would make them a viable alternative to Black Guard for Khainite lists, trading Stubborn and ITP for S6 swinging with KB. And to anyone that whines that this could make them better than Swordmasters, get over it. Black Guard already are better than Swordmasters, there's nothing wrong with having an alternative. Of course the Executioners could be granted Stubborn if within 12" of a Cauldron, but that's a separate 200pt unit that has to be dangerously close to the fray so I'm perfectly fine with that.

Magic Missile-style bound spells. Right now we have the expensive Black Staff that casts PoD and an easily-dispelled flight spell that seems nigh useless most of the time since you can't charge using your new flight powers during the magic phase. Or can you? I'll toss that in YMDC. Still, magic-missile style bound spells, preferably Chillwind.

For the love of Khaine, something to mitigate miscasts even a little bit. All magic-heavy armies except Dark Elves have a way to mitigate miscasts. I understand that's the risk of having a ton of Power Dice, but plenty of other non-DoC armies can bring a ton of dice and still have some defense against blowing themselves up.

Oh, and like others said, cheaper characters. I'm ok with them being more expensive than mundane alternatives, but wow they are insane.

I like your executioner changes, kinrbinator, but i don't think stubborn is nescessary, that would make them too hard. However an extra attack would be a great change and so would acsses to higher point banners, ASF is a great bonus on the executioners but i dont want to have to buy a standard bearer just to have it.

Well they wouldn't have Stubborn inherently, just by the Cauldron granting it to Khainite units. It's very expensive Stubborn and puts the Cauldron at risk so I don't feel my boosting of Executioners would make them unbalanced as an alternative to Black Guard.

Kirbinator wrote:Well they wouldn't have Stubborn inherently, just by the Cauldron granting it to Khainite units. It's very expensive Stubborn and puts the Cauldron at risk so I don't feel my boosting of Executioners would make them unbalanced as an alternative to Black Guard.

The only reason i take BG over executioners is thier extra attack, if you have only 5 or 6 attacks even S6 can sometimes still be less effective than the BG's 2 S4 attacks. An etra attack on the executioners would make me take executioners all the time, i thin BG should have another benefit of some sort, something to do with surrounding friendly units or when a dreadlord joins them (like the hammerer's bodyguard rule).

You mean like always re-rolling misses? Or being ItP? Or being stubborn? Or getting magic items on the champ or bigger banners? Bonuses like that?

Those would be pretty great...

RZ

My Welfs would like their characters back, and some armor that isn't made from tissue paper.

Having tree singing not stop when it comes to an enemy model would be nice and deadly, or add the ability to summon a forest mid game.

Dryads should be flamable, and should have some form of an armor save.

Red_Zeke wrote:You mean like always re-rolling misses? Or being ItP? Or being stubborn? Or getting magic items on the champ or bigger banners? Bonuses like that?

Those would be pretty great...

RZ

They already have re-rolls to miss. I was thinking that if a dreadlord joined them they would get extra banefits such as unbreakable (maybe call this Inspired Bravery?), or +1 attack on the charge (maybe call this Show Your Hatred?).

Any other ideas?

Eldar Own wrote:I was thinking that if a dreadlord joined them they would get extra banefits such as unbreakable (maybe call this Inspired Bravery?)

I think they call this Kouran, instead.

Eldar Own wrote:

Red_Zeke wrote:You mean like always re-rolling misses? Or being ItP? Or being stubborn? Or getting magic items on the champ or bigger banners? Bonuses like that?

Those would be pretty great...

RZ

They already have re-rolls to miss.

Brother, they already have *all* those things. I think they'd still be competitive if Executioners had two attacks apiece.

RZ

It makes you wonder how the power creep in army books ever started?

I understand trying to make executioners more viable for a choice in the book, but giving them both a higher points for a banner and +1 attacks is just making them another great unit. I think the DE have great choices already. Granted they are cool models and it would be nice to find a use for them.

I also like the idea of making daemon slayers more viable. You had some great ideas Zeke. I still like the idea of runic tatoos for a ward save vs missle attacks. I don't like the idea of a "death avoidance" ability though, that seems to go against everything they desire.

Eldar Own wrote:

Red_Zeke wrote:You mean like always re-rolling misses? Or being ItP? Or being stubborn? Or getting magic items on the champ or bigger banners? Bonuses like that?

Those would be pretty great...

RZ

They already have re-rolls to miss. I was thinking that if a dreadlord joined them they would get extra banefits such as unbreakable (maybe call this Inspired Bravery?), or +1 attack on the charge (maybe call this Show Your Hatred?).

Any other ideas?

Here we see the downside to arguing on the internet: A decreased ability to pick up on sarcasm.

Black Guard don't need help. I just had a unit of Black Guard joined by a Dreadlord eat through a unit of Chaos Warriors, then have Chaos Knights for dessert. It wasn't pretty (although my now ASF Dreadlord with Great Weapon and Potion of Strength going to town on Chaos Knights with S9 was deleiciously cruel).

Yeah, that's what I find usually pushes the unit up and over. They're vicious on their own, but when big characters join in, it just gets really rough.



RZ

boogeyman wrote:I understand trying to make executioners more viable for a choice in the book, but giving them both a higher points for a banner and +1 attacks is just making them another great unit. I think the DE have great choices already. Granted they are cool models and it would be nice to find a use for them.

That's all I was shooting for, making Exes a more viable unit within its own book. I don't feel DE need help as an army like some of the others do (Ogres, O&G, etc), but it is sad to see that fluffy army variants like full Khainite is totally blown away by a complete lack of basic things like an anvil unit or magic defense. People can bring a full Night Goblin list and still do well with it, I've seen it happen and there was a guy here on Dakka who did quite well with his. You can't take a full Khainite list and do well in anything other than a "battle of the softies!" tournament.

That's all I was shooting for, making Exes a more viable unit within its own book. I don't feel DE need help as an army like some of the others do (Ogres, O&G, etc), but it is sad to see that fluffy army variants like full Khainite is totally blown away by a complete lack of basic things like an anvil unit or magic defense. People can bring a full Night Goblin list and still do well with it, I've seen it happen and there was a guy here on Dakka who did quite well with his. You can't take a full Khainite list and do well in anything other than a "battle of the softies!" tournament.

That may be a tournament I could compete in.

I was just saying about the executioners is that if they get too good, then why would anyone take black guard or witches. But I do agree with making them a more viable choice.

Kirbinator wrote:

Eldar Own wrote:I was thinking that if a dreadlord joined them they would get extra banefits such as unbreakable (maybe call this Inspired Bravery?)

I think they call this Kouran, instead.

Oh..... Forgot about him

I still think that +1 on the charge would make them a bit more of a better choice, but what i'd really like to see is the BG to come with slit bases that are parellel to the base sides, rather than diagonal, it just looks stupid. (sorry off topic)

I think that executioners should be able to take 50pt banners which gives them access to the ASF banner, you'd probably have to up the points of it, to make this deadly combination a bit dearer.

Red_Zeke wrote:Yeah, that's what I find usually pushes the unit up and over. They're vicious on their own, but when big characters join in, it just gets really rough.

Yeah. I'm thinking of including a master with halberd and potion of stregnth in my BG, he can then strike at S8 if he wants to!

For WoC:

Chaos Lord points cost go down
Exalted Hero -> T5
Multiple Magic Items points cost go down, or changed around a bit; probably something to actually help them in their compulsory challenge
Marks cost different for different units, or possibly changed for some more benefit (so it's not MoS almost all round...)
Marauder Skirmisher unit added to Special (probably only allowed Additional Hand Weapons and throwing weapons).
Forsaken -> Skirmishers
Aekold Helbrass comes back
Warhounds don't panic other units

vampire counts- them having a ranged attack besides ethereal scream (or whatever its called)