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Even accepting page 79 as an extension to what happens when vehicles are destroyed I don't believe the clause in question completely overrules the idea that explodes doesn't disembark but is simply placed instead.

"...and so may suffer damage and/or be forced to 'disembark'"

the and/or gives us three options:

1. take damage only
2. forceed to 'disembark' only
3. both take damage and be forced to 'disembark'


Where do the two destroyed results from page 67 line up?

wrecked is obviously number 2 - forced to disembark, it says exactly that in the rule. It can also align to 3. Forced out and take damage. (being destroyed because they can't be placed is the ultimate damage, aside from heresy)

destroyed explodes is number 1 obviously, in the same manner as above - the rule says they take damage (str 4, AP- hits). Can explodes line up with 3? No, it does not say 'forced to disembark' in that paragraph. It says they are placed and take pinning.

So we have these two rules on page 67 which in no way contradict what is written in the and/or clause on page 79 but instead meet the requirements of that sentence completely.

FlingitNow wrote:
Occupying Buildings erferences the tRansport vehicles rules repeatedly (as they are essentially the same rules). It refers to the result of vehicle explodes as a forced disembark. Hence it is a forced disembark, not hard to figure out from page 67 that going from embarked to disembarked is disembarking but the crux of the argument against stated that it is not directly referenced as a disembark hence it is not. Well there is the direct reference right there case closed.

The page never does this, nor does any other rule.
You are making up rules. Caddock has a solid explanation of the sentence you appear to have returned to as your justification.

Albatross wrote:What about jump infantry? They can end their MOVE on top of impassable terrain, can't they?. What does that mean for 'placement'?

EDIT: It would still be irrelevant, mind.

Jump infantry can't ride in transports.

Which is one one of the reasons it would be irrelevant, in addition to the fact the vehicle doesn't become a piece of terrain until after any models in side have forcibly disembarked.

I thought the rules were pretty clear on p. 67.

If it is wrecked, the vehicle stays there. "Any models that cannot disembark are destroyed" is pretty clear. It even has a pretty picture to help illustrate the situation.

If it explodes, "... are placed where vehicle used to be..." is again pretty clear.

It can also align to 3. Forced out and take damage. (being destroyed because they can't be placed is the ultimate damage, aside from heresy)

Yeah I forgot this scenario, I concede by RaW that you can place the models anywhere

However the rules are still that it is a disembark.

If it explodes, "... are placed where vehicle used to be..." is again pretty clear.

Really is it that clear? It is a disembark as you are going from embarked to disembarked? In either case what do you do with models that can't fit where the "vehicle used to be"?

FlingitNow wrote:

If it explodes, "... are placed where vehicle used to be..." is again pretty clear.

Really is it that clear? It is a disembark as you are going from embarked to disembarked? In either case what do you do with models that can't fit where the "vehicle used to be"?

It not disembarking since it is not labeled as such. If your making clearly argument you lost. Its like me going its clearly not disembarking as there is nothing to disembark from. No where does it "clear" state that it is any thing other then place the models in the crater.

Look again.

Under Destroyed-Wrecked, it states that models disembark. Additionally, it makes no mention of an emergency disembark, just disembark. And, it states any vehicles that cannot disembark are destroyed.

Under Destroyed - Explodes, it states models "are placed where vehicle used to be." There is no mention of disembarking; The verb in the sentence is placed. You pick up the vehicle model and put the surviving models where it used to be.

So, the answer would be if hatches were blocked and vehicle is wrecked, models are destroyed. If it is destroyed and explodes, surviving models are placed where the vehicle "used to be."**

** Of course, one could make the argument that my vehicle "used to be" at the table edge when the game started, but that is an argument for another day......

Emergency disembark is allows by the rules for emergency disembark Green is Best!, so you do get to try to place sokme models.

I would have to agree that you would allow emergency disembarkation (I was just pointing out that it made no mention of emergency disembarkation under Destroyed-Wrecked).

So, it would sound like you would have to surround the entire model to not allow any form of disembarkation for a WRECKED vehicle.
For an exploded vehicle, it does not sound like disembarkation rules apply at all since you are "placing" models.

1" based models all exactgly in base with the vehicle in theory allow you to place them outside of the unit surrounding the vehicle, as you are allowed 2" from the vehicle.

Looks *really* wrong!

It not disembarking since it is not labeled as such. If your making clearly argument you lost. Its like me going its clearly not disembarking as there is nothing to disembark from. No where does it "clear" state that it is any thing other then place the models in the crater.

I'm not making the clearly argument read what I've posted I said it was far from clear. No one has yet said what happens to models that cannot be placed.

1" based models all exactgly in base with the vehicle in theory allow you to place them outside of the unit surrounding the vehicle, as you are allowed 2" from the vehicle.

Not possible. Even the if the bases of the model perfectly touch the vehicle hull their edge is 1" away. To disembark you have to be within 2" so at most 1.999999999999etc" away hence you will be only 0.999999999" away not 1.00000000000...00001" as is required by the rules.

Incorrect - you have assumed that the 1" bases are, in fact, 1". They are just *under* 1".

Also, because bases are round, there is always a little more wiggle room, as you're not forced to place models directly opposite the bases of your enemies.

When it explodes you place the models in the crater, what happens if there isn't room?? Now i can't speak for all transports but all the ones i can think of you can fit the all the models in the transports foot print (rhinos, wave serpents, chimera devilfish and Landraides). So with that in mind they should fit so there is no need of an additional rule, for when models don't fit.

20 Boyz from a battlewagon footprint might make it a little crowded.

Tri wrote:When it explodes you place the models in the crater, what happens if there isn't room?? Now i can't speak for all transports but all the ones i can think of you can fit the all the models in the transports foot print (rhinos, wave serpents, chimera devilfish and Landraides). So with that in mind they should fit so there is no need of an additional rule, for when models don't fit.

I doubt I could fit 20 boyz or 10 meganobs in a wagon footprint. Much less 11 boyz and a nob in my last edition trukks.
It's a clear omission in the rules and can lead to a game hang, but that doesn't change what the rules say. The RAW is the RAW.

I'd probably agree with my opponent beforehand that such models would be removed as casualties, as in wrecked.

Ah well being fair i forgot about the battle wagon what are their dimentions? If its at least ... err 4" by 6.(1/2)" you should be able to fit 20 models into that space. (placed in the old triangle formation) I'd guestimate from what i know it'll be about 21-22 models.

The old truck ya but the new one should be ok.