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An interesting scenario ocurred at a test game yesterday- I completely covered a rhino with 7 jetbikes - not just the hatches, but the entire circumference of the model.

My plan was simply to stun it, to prevent movement, so I could disable it for a turn, and not have to worry about the occupants. My question is this: if I destroyed the vehicle, or exploded it - what would happen to the models inside,, other than pinning test and str 4 hit where applicable?

apollochaos wrote:An interesting scenario ocurred at a test game yesterday- I completely covered a rhino with 7 jetbikes - not just the hatches, but the entire circumference of the model.

My plan was simply to stun it, to prevent movement, so I could disable it for a turn, and not have to worry about the occupants. My question is this: if I destroyed the vehicle, or exploded it - what would happen to the models inside,, other than pinning test and str 4 hit where applicable?

This is covered on page 67, specifically Emergency Disembarking and the "Destroyed - Wrecked" result.

Explodes is a bit trickier however, as it doesn't cover what happens if there is enough room.

I guess that means the passengers die, since they can't use the emergency disembark to be within 2" of any part of the vehicle. The Jetbike bases would cover all areas around the vehicle.

Indeed.

If you just cover the hatches, they can emergency disembark at another part of the vehicle, and they can't do anything for the remainder of "the turn." Since you destroy a vehicle on YOUR turn, I don't get that one - the enemy models can't do anything else during your turn? They couldn't do anything anyway? Or, is it for a full game turn like pinning?

But if you surround the entire vehicle with a unit (ork boy favorite), then nothing can emergency disembark out because you're in the way of anything getting out anywhere within 2"

Everyone dies within the vehicle this happened at my local GW and the manager said everyone died because the explosion would burn them alive since your technically holding the hatches shut

DC_Ravenor wrote:Everyone dies within the vehicle this happened at my local GW and the manager said everyone died because the explosion would burn them alive since your technically holding the hatches shut

All hail the local GW Manager, for he is all knowing and all powerful in the minimum wage retail business. We plebes, incapable of reading the rules, tremble at his terrible ruling.

Emergency disembark ftw... lol

On a "Wrecked" result they die, i belive on an "exploded" result you remove the model, and place the Occupants in the location in which it "was blown up at" (exept wraithgaurd who rolled 1 on their wraithsight, they die on any result of Death to vehicle) then Str 4 Pinnin

Dashofpepper wrote:Indeed.

If you just cover the hatches, they can emergency disembark at another part of the vehicle, and they can't do anything for the remainder of "the turn." Since you destroy a vehicle on YOUR turn, I don't get that one - the enemy models can't do anything else during your turn? They couldn't do anything anyway? Or, is it for a full game turn like pinning?

But if you surround the entire vehicle with a unit (ork boy favorite), then nothing can emergency disembark out because you're in the way of anything getting out anywhere within 2"

I believe page 9 states that when the rules mention a "turn" it is by default defined as a player turn, not as a game turn. So if a unit emergency disembarks on their own turn (due to hatches being covered by enemy and just wanting to get out, etc) then they can't do anything until the opponents turn. If unit emergency disembarks on their opponents turn, then they get to act normally on their own turn.

I don't know if putting it in a real life situation will help but if you were in your car and there was a fire and all the doors were locked then you'd die. I think this is a rule that it may be up to the two people playing to "discuss" this when it happens to either of them

DC_Ravenor wrote:I don't know if putting it in a real life situation will help but if you were in your car and there was a fire and all the doors were locked then you'd die. I think this is a rule that it may be up to the two people playing to "discuss" this when it happens to either of them

i would emergancy disembark through the window just like in 40K.

Tri wrote:

DC_Ravenor wrote:I don't know if putting it in a real life situation will help but if you were in your car and there was a fire and all the doors were locked then you'd die. I think this is a rule that it may be up to the two people playing to "discuss" this when it happens to either of them

i would emergancy disembark through the window just like in 40K.

I would use my super-human strength augmented by my powered armor to tear a hole in the bulkhead, just like in real life.

willydstyle wrote:

Tri wrote:

DC_Ravenor wrote:I don't know if putting it in a real life situation will help but if you were in your car and there was a fire and all the doors were locked then you'd die. I think this is a rule that it may be up to the two people playing to "discuss" this when it happens to either of them

i would emergancy disembark through the window just like in 40K.

I would use my super-human strength augmented by my powered armor to tear a hole in the bulkhead, just like in real life.

I would grab my arm for da doc to put bak on later, then use it to bash open da hatchez!

Okay, so if the entire circumference of the vehicle is covered, and not JUST the hatches, the passengers die? (provided the vehicle was destroyed)

In a RL situation, this makes sense, as they'd be burned alive, but if the rules don't allow it, I don't want to gain an unfair advantage over the person I'm playing against :p

Any models that cannot disembark / emergency disembark are destroyed. YEs, that is what the rules alow.

apollochaos wrote:Okay, so if the entire circumference of the vehicle is covered, and not JUST the hatches, the passengers die? (provided the vehicle was destroyed)

ONLY if a Wrecked (5) result was rolled, where the passengers must disembark before the vehicle is removed. If an Explodes (6) result is rolled the passengers are placed inside the crater left by the vehicle.

Never EVER blindly trust GW retail employees about the rules. EVER.

apollochaos wrote:Okay, so if the entire circumference of the vehicle is covered, and not JUST the hatches, the passengers die? (provided the vehicle was destroyed)

As has been cover on a (5) wrecked yes on (6) destroyed they get placed in the crater

In a RL situation, this makes sense, as they'd be burned alive, but if the rules don't allow it, I don't want to gain an unfair advantage over the person I'm playing against :p

... ok so i take a strength 4 hit by the flame, i still get my armour save. Even better if i'm in a convertible its open-toped only take a strength 3 hit.

You place them in the area the vehicle was following the normal disembarking rules (i.e. not within 1" of the enemy) any models that can't placed? Well technically there is no rule governing models that can't be legally placed but most people would assume that they are destroyed either that or the game hangs...

What page is this on? I can't see how Jet Bikes can keep hatches shut? First of rules wise, I don't get it so if someone can tell me what page, it would be greatly appreciated.

2nd, how can a jet bike close a hatch as it is moving objet. Wouldn't it have to stop to be able to do it? Also, wouldn't the Marines or who ever was inside, just shoot with thier guns to make a hole from the inside to just get out and make their own hatch?

What page is this on? I can't see how Jet Bikes can keep hatches shut? First of rules wise, I don't get it so if someone can tell me what page, it would be greatly appreciated.

2nd, how can a jet bike close a hatch as it is moving objet. Wouldn't it have to stop to be able to do it? Also, wouldn't the Marines or who ever was inside, just shoot with thier guns to make a hole from the inside to just get out and make their own hatch?

Movement page 11 models cannot move within 1"

Disembarking is a type of movement as of page 67 is a form of movement.

Explodes results in a forced disembark as of page 79.

If you cannot disembark normally you disembark through Emergency Disembark.
This states that any models that cannot be placed are destroyed.

Also,m dont being realism into a game involving telepathic alien eating machines fighitng fascist xenophobic geneticaly engineered Knights....

Ah thank you Flinginitnow, now I am understanding.

FlingitNow wrote:You place them in the area the vehicle was following the normal disembarking rules (i.e. not within 1" of the enemy) any models that can't placed? Well technically there is no rule governing models that can't be legally placed but most people would assume that they are destroyed either that or the game hangs...

The rules never supported the 1" rule applying to explodes placement, despite your claims to the contrary.
Placement after explodes is not defined as a disembarking action (and cannot be defined as such, the way the rules are written) or as movement. No 1" restriction rules apply.

You can place them anywhere within the exploded vehicles footprint by RAW.

The rules never supported the 1" rule applying to explodes placement, despite your claims to the contrary.
Placement after explodes is not defined as a disembarking action (and cannot be defined as such, the way the rules are written) or as movement. No 1" restriction rules apply.

You can place them anywhere within the exploded vehicles footprint by RAW.

Your argument pinned on it not being classified as a disembark. Which is clearly not the case as proven on page 79 of the rulebook as referenced above...

By RAW the 1" rule applies no matter how much you might not want it to.

FlingitNow wrote:

The rules never supported the 1" rule applying to explodes placement, despite your claims to the contrary.
Placement after explodes is not defined as a disembarking action (and cannot be defined as such, the way the rules are written) or as movement. No 1" restriction rules apply.

You can place them anywhere within the exploded vehicles footprint by RAW.

Your argument pinned on it not being classified as a disembark. Which is clearly not the case as proven on page 79 of the rulebook as referenced above...

By RAW the 1" rule applies no matter how much you might not want it to.

No such rule exists, on that page or otherwise. You are fabricating it and your claims.
I refuse to have this go-around with you again, as multiple people repeatedly proven you to be wrong on this issue and your point has no solid RAW backing.

Being placed after an explosion is not 'moving out of a vehicle', and is never defined as such.
"Models may be forced to disembark" by a destroyed result is not "All destroyed results use the disembarking rules".
The disembarking rules are unnapplyable to exploded vehicles and are never referenced or invoked.
Placement is never generally defined as movement.
Nothing overrides the simple instructions in the explodes result rules.
You are wrong by RAW, and I'd appreciate it if you'd stop spreading misinformation.

Edit:

FlingitNow wrote:

and is never defined as such.

Please read page 79 where it clearly states that a model can take damage AND be "forced to disembark". The only way it is possible for a model to take damage when in a transport is through the vehicle explodes result. Hence the vehicle explodes result is a forced disembarkation.

You are misquoting the rulebook.
The rule clearly says "AND/OR", and is clearly qualified by a 'may'.
A single reading of a sentence outside the transport rules that gives building embarked models the permission to take damage and forcibly disembark is not even remotely close to a valid RAW proof or even implication that the explodes damage result is forced to use disembarking... or that the clear text in the vehicle explodes result is somehow now redefined or rewritten to include outside rules it never mentions.

You are again making fabricated claims.
Anyone reading these claims, please go read the explodes result rules, the disembarking rules, the movement restriction rules, and other examples for yourself.

I will not post on this topic again.

and is never defined as such.

Please read page 79 where it clearly states that a model can take damage AND be "forced to disembark". The only way it is possible for a model to take damage when in a transport is through the vehicle explodes result. Hence the vehicle explodes result is a forced disembarkation.

repost

garigon wrote:I guess that means the passengers die, since they can't use the emergency disembark to be within 2" of any part of the vehicle. The Jetbike bases would cover all areas around the vehicle.

I think this is the most likely thing to happen. I would do this.

Unfortunately, my club plays it as such: if a transport that has been destroyed, as in wrecked, and there's no room for the models inside to disembark anywhere - they simply appear on top of it. While I don't agree completely with it on a personal level, (though it makes some sense)in the spirit of fun and sportsmanship, I say go ahead. It's not a house rule here, that's exactly how they feel the rule is meant to be - they don't take the literal terms of the codex, i.e. disembark and then it's a wreck, but actually, they disembark from the tank which is, after having been destroyed, now a wreck.

Dashofpepper wrote:Indeed.

If you just cover the hatches, they can emergency disembark at another part of the vehicle, and they can't do anything for the remainder of "the turn." Since you destroy a vehicle on YOUR turn, I don't get that one - the enemy models can't do anything else during your turn? They couldn't do anything anyway? Or, is it for a full game turn like pinning?

But if you surround the entire vehicle with a unit (ork boy favorite), then nothing can emergency disembark out because you're in the way of anything getting out anywhere within 2"

Ahem. Tank Shock, Death or Glory.