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reds8n wrote:

malfred wrote:Make them ALL play Dungeons and Dragons with Fraz as Dungeonmaster.

With real dungeons.

And dragons.

and Frazzled has to dress up as the one from the cartoon too.

What do you mean? The one from the cartoon is Frazz.

GG

edit..by the way prisoners can be reformed. But only the ones that want to.

Frazzled wrote:Its a pissant county in Arizona. Frankly anyone living there in the first place has to be wackjob insane.

Hey!

Also, it's not a pissant county in Arizona. Its Maricopa County. You know, the county with the 5th most populous city in the US?

As for Sheriff Joe, 50/50 still accounts for his success in running a cost-effective system of prisons, which accounts for those TRIED AND FOUND GUILTY. 75% of those imprisoned are not given trial my ass. Thats a load of bull. The only prison where tent city and the pink underwear are is a facility for post-trial felons. He is a county sheriff, which locks people up all the time, of course the system as a whole will have large amounts of people who haven't been tried/are in the middle of one.

His true abuses, his political power grabs, his direct targeting of Mexican-Americans, most of which are legal citizens, his subversion of federal and state authority, are where due attention needs to be paid. What keeps him in his position is the fact that more than enough people AGREE with those subversions in Maricopa.

Altered_Soul wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Its a pissant county in Arizona. Frankly anyone living there in the first place has to be wackjob insane.

Hey!

Also, it's not a pissant county in Arizona. Its Maricopa County. You know, the county with the 5th most populous city in the US?

As for Sheriff Joe, 50/50 still accounts for his success in running a cost-effective system of prisons, which accounts for those TRIED AND FOUND GUILTY. 75% of those imprisoned are not given trial my ass. Thats a load of bull. The only prison where tent city and the pink underwear are is a facility for post-trial felons. He is a county sheriff, which locks people up all the time, of course the system as a whole will have large amounts of people who haven't been tried/are in the middle of one.

His true abuses, his political power grabs, his direct targeting of Mexican-Americans, most of which are legal citizens, his subversion of federal and state authority, are where due attention needs to be paid. What keeps him in his position is the fact that more than enough people AGREE with those subversions in Maricopa.

You mean Phoenix? My apologies although I'd dispute that 5th place. DFW is one locale now and San Antonio has continued to grow.

Interesting take on human rights here. And by interesting I mean a little sick. People do realize that 1 life is just as important as another? Sure consequences are different, if i kill my neighbor I get life, if my neighbor is a judge I get death....Justice isn't blind, she wears a blind fold. Anyways prisons are not "rehabilitation centers" as pointed out earlier. Also violent criminals are lumped in with non-violent such as theft of drug dealing etc. Someone who gets busted with a buncha kilos should go to jail for sure, but should they share an area with someone who raped or murdered? Or someone who fleeced hundreds of millions getting a nice cushy jail in comparison? Again justice for some.

In India there is a prison that gives prisoners an option to do Vespa meditation, they live a harder life than the other prisoners while doing so. Some documentary on it on discovery channel I think. The repeat offenders is lessened though. Maybe because it is someone who wants to change, as opposed to someone who is forced to change? Also if someone wants to fix something in their own country first, good. It is where we should start instead of running everywhere else telling them do as I say not as I do.

Anyways the original poster feels that the ruling may be opening a door to set precedence that the gaming community would not benefit from. I think due to the nature of the location of the decision (in a prison facility) certain liberties were not considered. The prisons response was more of "give them an inch they will take a mile", afraid it would open door for other "gangs". Clearly no one should play cribbage with the same people either, as it could lead to gambling over time or organized crime. In fact, no cards...and anyone caught playing guess which hand will also be forced to stop by threat of bean bag to the gut. I guess the give them an inch they will take a mile can work both ways.

(I am a little extreme here...just matching the threads tempo!)

Frazzled wrote:You mean Phoenix? My apologies although I'd dispute that 5th place. DFW is one locale now and San Antonio has continued to grow.

Phoenix dipped to 6th in 2005 but by 2007 was the 5th largest again. This is from a city perspective, as a whole the Phoenix Metro area is 12th in the nation.

Frazzled wrote:Answer the question though. Why do you care?

Because this was the issue that was raised. When people make posts about the wonders of Iranian justice, we'll pop up to tell them they need to take a closer look at what's really happening.

We could debate Iranian human rights abuses if you want, but I suspect it'll be something along the lines of;
"Iran has lots of human rights abuses."
"Yes they do. It's bad."
"Yes it is."
"Yep."
"Mmhmm."
"Yeah."

There are about 8,357,567 more important human rights violations going on, including in your own country. Fix your own issues before you come across the border and look down on Arizona. They have enough problems already without you pointing a finger and shouting "you're bad you're bad!" like they give a damn.

Umm, the only person here who's attacked Arizona is you. The rest of us have criticised a sheriff. Criticising a sheriff is not an attack on the entire state.

sebster wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Answer the question though. Why do you care?

Because this was the issue that was raised. When people make posts about the wonders of Iranian justice, we'll pop up to tell them they need to take a closer look at what's really happening.

We could debate Iranian human rights abuses if you want, but I suspect it'll be something along the lines of;
"Iran has lots of human rights abuses."
"Yes they do. It's bad."
"Yes it is."
"Yep."
"Mmhmm."
"Yeah."

There are about 8,357,567 more important human rights violations going on, including in your own country. Fix your own issues before you come across the border and look down on Arizona. They have enough problems already without you pointing a finger and shouting "you're bad you're bad!" like they give a damn.

Umm, the only person here who's attacked Arizona is you. The rest of us have criticised a sheriff. Criticising a sheriff is not an attack on the entire state.

Er the topic was banning the use of D&D in a prison, not Maricopa County. Again the rage is selective.

In the meantime
http://www.news-spider.com/comments/1264788216

Frazzled wrote:Er the topic was banning the use of D&D in a prison, not Maricopa County. Again the rage is selective.

Er, Empchild mentioned his support for Arpaio on the first page. The topic of conversation shifted as people posted their opinions of him.

In the meantime
http://www.news-spider.com/comments/1264788216

"Iran has lots of human rights abuses."

And again the rage is selective. Same reason I make fun of Amnesty International now, when I was a former supporter. They'll dump all over the US and occasionally mention "oh yea and 32,000 were smacked around in Iran this month we're outraged, now back to evil Sheriff Bob.

The prisoner should totally get a saving throw. It is only fair.

Frazzled wrote: now back to evil Sheriff Bob.

Dude, hush up, or a Maricopa Sheriff SWAT team will be "knocking" on your door soon. And then he will hunt down and arrest the rest of Dakka.

Gitzbitah wrote:The prisoner should totally get a saving throw. It is only fair.

And Ladies And Gentleman, oh and Frazzled.

This wins the thread!


I dont see how D&D is going to inspire the prisoners to escape. Unless they have magic powers, but we're in trouble anyway if that happens

J-Roc77 wrote:People do realize that 1 life is just as important as another?

Wrong. The life of a cold-blooded murderer is worth little, if nothing. And the life of a murderer who has been trusted by the people of the nation to safeguard their rights is worth even less.

Frazzled wrote:And again the rage is selective. Same reason I make fun of Amnesty International now, when I was a former supporter. They'll dump all over the US and occasionally mention "oh yea and 32,000 were smacked around in Iran this month we're outraged, now back to evil Sheriff Bob.

This is the sort of thing that people who are grossly uninformed tend to spout off when they feel particularly chagrined about a single campaign run by AI. The truth is that its a massive organization that deals with issues all over the globe, if you only hear about the one's you take offense to, its because those are the only ones that you're paying attention to.

Amnesty International has been criticized of being biased against non-Western countries, Western backed countries, and Western countries; almost always because the accuser has too much pride with respect to their nation (or political cause) to admit that something might not be ideal (and it is an idealist organization).

Orkeosaurus wrote:

J-Roc77 wrote:People do realize that 1 life is just as important as another?

Wrong. The life of a cold-blooded murderer is worth little, if nothing. And the life of a murderer who has been trusted by the people of the nation to safeguard their rights is worth even less.

Ha, "Wrong" is s strong term. I think you mean, " I disagree with your 'opinion' here is mine". Hmmm, usually when a post starts out like mine did, it evokes someone to read 1 sentence and forget or not even read the rest. It is all skewed on both sides of discussion. People need to sort out it all for themselves and find where they stand. The majority of people usually settle in the middle of these discussions. It is all propaganda really.

I feel that in any situation it is not as black and white as you feel it is. Sure murder is murder, as is vengeance wrong as well. There is a rationalization many people use to justify feelings or actions by not looking at the whole subject.

A martial arts teacher I knew once killed a man who molested his son in the 80's. (with a hand gun not by his kung fu grip) He was acquitted. Did he murder a man, yes, did he deserve to go to prison for life for it...in my opinion no. Is it right?....now here is where they grey area is...I can say no it wasn't right. I do not know the man who died, what problems he had. I only knew his actions and the man who acted on them. It was not my child though. Heck if it happened to my kid I would be in the same situation. Is the guilt punishment enough, or the actions justified? 12 people thought so, for whatever reason they chose, vengeance, justification, or pity.

Heck I can even think of 1 more recent tragedy (past 3 years) in my home town that is not clear cut either. I wont go into the particulars, but it is very similar to the one stated above, he however is in prison for it. If you looked at the kids past 15 years (hes well into his 20s now) you would think there is no justice at all.

I think I am way off topic here as is the whole thread now. I guess my point is on the other side of the spectrum as others. We can give our points of view all day and I bet neither of us will budge. You cannot undo someones beliefs with a sentence. You can only state yours and look at someone elses. The hard part for most is looking at the other persons!

Is this thread officially hijacked yet?

Tyyr wrote:The day you prove to me that you can rehabilitate someone I'll be all for it. Better useful members of society than publicly funded daycare. Until then I'll settle for actual punishment.

except that there is no money in "rehab". If we lock someone up, let them out and they -don't come back- that is lost money to prison industry.

It's much better for business to lock them up, treat them like animals so that -if- they do get let out, they're back in a short time.

think of the business.

Altered_Soul wrote:

Frazzled wrote: now back to evil Sheriff Bob.

Dude, hush up, or a Maricopa Sheriff SWAT team will be "knocking" on your door soon. And then he will hunt down and arrest the rest of Dakka.

They'd better bring friends. This is Texas. We don't take kindly to trespassers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord-Loss wrote:

Gitzbitah wrote:The prisoner should totally get a saving throw. It is only fair.

And Ladies And Gentleman, oh and Frazzled.

This wins the thread!


I dont see how D&D is going to inspire the prisoners to escape. Unless they have magic powers, but we're in trouble anyway if that happens

True that. I just want to see someone get shanked with an Ork.

Frazzled wrote:

Altered_Soul wrote:

Frazzled wrote: now back to evil Sheriff Bob.

Dude, hush up, or a Maricopa Sheriff SWAT team will be "knocking" on your door soon. And then he will hunt down and arrest the rest of Dakka.

They'd better bring friends. This is Texas. We don't take kindly to trespassers.

Half of them ARE Texans.

Also, lets play Joe Arpaio on Wikipedia, hilarious edition:

J-Roc77 wrote:Ha, "Wrong" is s strong term. I think you mean, " I disagree with your 'opinion' here is mine".

You're right, I was unnecessarily curt. My apologies.

I feel that in any situation it is not as black and white as you feel it is. Sure murder is murder, as is vengeance wrong as well. There is a rationalization many people use to justify feelings or actions by not looking at the whole subject.

A martial arts teacher I knew once killed a man who molested his son in the 80's. (with a hand gun not by his kung fu grip) He was acquitted. Did he murder a man, yes, did he deserve to go to prison for life for it...in my opinion no. Is it right?....now here is where they grey area is...I can say no it wasn't right. I do not know the man who died, what problems he had. I only knew his actions and the man who acted on them. It was not my child though. Heck if it happened to my kid I would be in the same situation. Is the guilt punishment enough, or the actions justified? 12 people thought so, for whatever reason they chose, vengeance, justification, or pity.

Heck I can even think of 1 more recent tragedy (past 3 years) in my home town that is not clear cut either. I wont go into the particulars, but it is very similar to the one stated above, he however is in prison for it. If you looked at the kids past 15 years (hes well into his 20s now) you would think there is no justice at all.

In fairness I did preface "murderer" with "cold-blooded".

However; I think your point about things not being so "black and white" actually reaffirms my general position. If, while a person may be deserving of nothing but death, or of no harm to ever come to them, most people (or most criminals certainly) fall somewhere in the middle, then the importance of their life may well fall between two extremes as well. This does still, of course, make them unequal, if not absolutely so. A serial killer's life lacks so much value that they are either executed outright or they are die in prison. A different type of criminal may have a life too valuable to end outright, or deny forever, and so they are punished less severely. An innocent person has the full value of their life in place, and thus it cannot be infringed upon at all (at least in the context of criminal law).

Orkeosaurus wrote:

J-Roc77 wrote:Ha, "Wrong" is s strong term. I think you mean, " I disagree with your 'opinion' here is mine".

You're right, I was unnecessarily curt. My apologies.

Orkeosaurus wrote:

In fairness I did preface "murderer" with "cold-blooded".

However; I think your point about things not being so "black and white" actually reaffirms my general position. If, while a person may be deserving of nothing but death, or of no harm to ever come to them, most people (or most criminals certainly) fall somewhere in the middle, then the importance of their life may well fall between two extremes as well. This does still, of course, make them unequal, if not absolutely so. A serial killer's life lacks so much value that they are either executed outright or they are die in prison. A different type of criminal may have a life too valuable to end outright, or deny forever, and so they are punished less severely. An innocent person has the full value of their life in place, and thus it cannot be infringed upon at all (at least in the context of criminal law).

Thanks, I am sure you did not mean to come across like that. It is hard to judge someones demeanor over the internet.

I see what you are saying with this sliding scale, like points on your drivers license kind of idea. I just feel that the percentage of people in jail on the lower end of this scale is a much smaller percentage than anyone would really like to think. The serial killer will no doubt fall on the end of the scale somewhere. But I feel the issue there is more often than not mental. (my words hold no weight here btw...I am a firefighter...not a criminologist!)

I do realize a violent crime is a HUGE step to take, and should not be taken lightly. And should society think less of a person who has committed such a crime? Well no matter what anyone thinks, yes it happens. Its basic human instinct, we know it is wrong no matter what /where we are from. We associate the the level of crime they committed with a ranking, so to speak, on their person. Even unjustly at times. By no means do I support these violent criminals, I just like to think there is more to a person than a possible HUGE in-discretionary act of passion, or anger.

On topic with the OP. I didn't see if you had a opinion on the ruling. I can see someone taking a stand saying in prison it should be bare bones, I mean do other prisoners have Pictionary or Scattegories to play...or should they even? I think there should be some sort of entertainment to an extent available to them. I mean a game of fantasy violence and roleplaying is just that in my opinion, fantasy. I just feel the wording why they took the privilege away could be detrimental to gaming. No gamer I know has violent tendencies, or run away from home, and if they did I doubt the game would have anything to do with it.

Hmm...It seems the discussion I just tried to revive may be over 2 pages ago....


And I messed with the quote thing and broke it in this post....(just fixed it on edit #3)