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JohnHwangDD wrote:

Howlingmoon wrote:No, he pretty much described Dakka. A pile a teenage dirtbags that fight to establish their own pecking order. Mods > Their Friends > everyone else.

And this relates to gaming because most gamers are maladjusted social misfits.

OK, then why are you here?

Why are you here?

See? I can ask pseudo-rhetorical questions that I think I know the answer too to!

me n my bro used to play all the time n he stopped in his words "the game is ace, the modles are cool but most of the people who play are f****n d***s n i just cant be arsed with it no more" he never played since. tbh im starting to agree, "you cant do that its not in the codex" "no its a campaign so we have to have..." n its like SHUT UP YOU FOOL! just let me kick your arse n you can go home n cry that your army is trash n if i lose ill go good game yo well played next time ill stomp ya, tryin to make jokes n all. (i collect orks see n my army is stupidly annoying to beat)

folks are seeming to lose there personalities n becoming complete arse's with the "im better than you, so you cant play this"

I know exactly what you mean, when I first got into the game I was really excited and enthusiastic, but as I've gotten to know the fanbase more I suddenly feel like a huge god-damned slow for wasting so much money on this hobby.

I just want to play the damn game, I'm tired of people treating me like subhuman scum or worse because I didn't build my army 100% according to their interpretation of the background.

Sidstyler wrote:I know exactly what you mean, when I first got into the game I was really excited and enthusiastic, but as I've gotten to know the fanbase more I suddenly feel like a huge god-damned slow for wasting so much money on this hobby.

I just want to play the damn game, I'm tired of people treating me like subhuman scum or worse because I didn't build my army 100% according to their interpretation of the background.

I find that this really only happens online though.

I don't think I've ever gotten a hassle at my LGS. Indeed, you would most likely get laughed out of the store if you had a Message-Board-Style Hissy Fit about how many Fire Warriors should technically be in someone's Cadre.

Relic_OMO wrote:
'The youth of today love luxury; they have bad manners and contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Youth are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up food at the table, and tyrannize their teachers.' - Socrates

Thanks for that, Relic.
Really, that made my day.

Howlingmoon wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Howlingmoon wrote:No, he pretty much described Dakka. A pile a teenage dirtbags that fight to establish their own pecking order. Mods > Their Friends > everyone else.

And this relates to gaming because most gamers are maladjusted social misfits.

OK, then why are you here?

Why are you here?

See? I can ask pseudo-rhetorical questions that I think I know the answer too to!

That wasn't a rhetorical question. It's was a rather roundabout way of asking:
- Why do you see yourself as "a teenage dirtbag"?
- If Dakka is so bad, why stay?

I'm here because I enjoy being here. I'm not some world-hater who'd lump myself into a group that I self describe as "A pile a teenage dirtbags"...

Hi all.
Just a quick observation from an older dirtbag...
When the environment that the new players are introduced to is filled with more calming and informative poeple thet are passionate about the wargaming hobby, they can decide quite quickly if this hobby is for them.

The skilled veteran hobbiest is the best person to inspire creativity and individualty in a person SUITED to this hobby. (Old GW was run by this type of person.)

Thats why at gaming clubs where the ONLY influence is the veteran hobbiest, the people in the group tend to be more focused on the hobby , and less on what minatures they are using.And in general tend to be of like minded atitude towards gaming and social interaction.They may have hardcore play to win groups , and more background focused groups, but they have seperate rule sets more suited to each groups style of play.

Thats the great thing about independant clubs & FLGS, there are hundreds of game to chose from!

When GW was run by hobbiests, the WHOLE OF GW OUTPUT was about inspiring creativity in others.(And the inspired people bought product from the gifted artisans that inspired them .)

The problem is now GW plc has become focused on pimping expencive plastic to any one they can !
Irrespective of how suitable they are to the hobby!
And without a constant and well defined dirction from the guiding hand, (sales staff have conflicting priorities, and vets often dont feel welcome any more in GW stores...)

The new customers have thier own diverse ideas re-enforced by the sales staff to make the sale.

Oh yes! buy that new unit for your army, it is TOTAL WINNN!

Yes, that group expensive collectors range minature will add to the narrative theme of your army!

Thats right you HAVE to buy the specific BA boxed sets for your new BA army, the other minatures are not suitable.!

If you buy this cool new army, all your friends will respect you more!

Ok exagerated examples , but the customer is always right ,does not sit well with developing a specific niche hobby where similar atitudes and methods are paramount to the enjoyment of the hobby.

When GWplc decided to focus on new gamers to maximise short term retail return, and switched from consistant and focused support for hobiests, to a focus on impulse pruchasing.
They did a great dis -service to ALL GW gamers IMO.

I belive the polorisation of GW gamers is simply due to every one being told that GW core games are ideal for them, just to get sales up.
And so the idea thier concept of 40k/WH is right because the GW representative said so, leads to lots of animosity and discorse between GW gamers.

And lets not forget the internet lets lots of like minded people communicate quicker than ever.So no matter how far from the ' common ideal' you ideas are, ther is ALWAYS some other people that agree with you.

Therfore its ONLY GW plc who could rectify the situation , but as they are likely to loose cash if they did,I'll not hold my breath.

(AFAIK this phemnomenom is a GW specific one.)
TTFN
Lanrak.

The WAAC types can be a problem. My first game ever, my opponent, who was very knoledgeable, "won" the game at the beginning of turm 5 by telling me the game ends on a roll of 4+. The fact that my next round of shooting would have tied the game at minimum, and won it at best, didn't impact his "oops I made a mistake, it ends on a 1 or 2 on turn 5". I guess the idea of drawing or losing to a neophyte was to much.

Sidstyler wrote:I know exactly what you mean, when I first got into the game I was really excited and enthusiastic, but as I've gotten to know the fanbase more I suddenly feel like a huge god-damned slow for wasting so much money on this hobby.

I just want to play the damn game, I'm tired of people treating me like subhuman scum or worse because I didn't build my army 100% according to their interpretation of the background.

exactly the problem, if its not 100% perfect to the damn codex then its not allowed to be used, tbh i prefere to play with my friends who play, see we just like the game n some of the books, its not life.

its such a shame cuz it really is a great game but some of the followers just suck, i mean crap let it go its a game not reality!.

To the OP, if I were to go to my FLGS for a pick-up game and the opponent asked to see my list before making his, there would be no game. I'd tell him to just make a list or forget it. I'd have no problem not playing his tailored list.

I agree that that is a big problem and it sucks for you if that's your only pool to draw a game from.

Since everyone is sharing their experiences, I'd like to share mine.

There are 5 of us that play regularly at each others houses. No FLGS pick-up games, just us. Most of us have known each other for 10+ years through various connections. 40k is just another of our hobbies.

Most of our games are centered around our Planetary Empires game. So, each game, you know exactly who your opponent is and can tailor your list accordingly. everyone knows and accepts this, so there isn't an issue.

However, we wanted a break from this, so we're playing a mini-tournament now that that campaign has finished. We each have to make an all-comers list and play each other. Just something different to shuffle into our game.

For the next Planetary Empires campaign, maybe we'll have to play the same 1500 or 2000 point list for the first round and allow list tailoring for subsequent rounds.

gloomygrim wrote:its such a shame cuz it really is a great game but some of the followers just suck, i mean crap let it go its a game not reality!.

How dare you! Warhams is serious business!

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Relic_OMO wrote:
'The youth of today love luxury; they have bad manners and contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Youth are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up food at the table, and tyrannize their teachers.' - Socrates

Thanks for that, Relic.
Really, that made my day.

Got an older one for you. From an Assyrian tablet, dated ~2800 BCE:

"The Earth is degenerating today.
Bribery and corruption abound.
Children no longer obey their parents,
every man wants to write a book, and
it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching."

http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/assyrian_tablet_quote_71f7

I'll have to echo the sentiments of the above. I've noticed this creeping trend of win at all costs - even in friendly games. Nothing worse than seeing a grown man cheat! There is also hostility to certain army lists e.g a Brettonian list that is mainly peasants ( there is an event in the background) my daemon army that includes at least one unit from each god, and is mainly focused on cores (some people don't understand the concept of daemonic legion and heckle you for not doing an uber-Khorne army) and finally, don't even think about including servitors in you marine force, even if you really like the models!

Competitive gaming will continue to spread for a pretty simple reason. Sort of a weird variation on game theory.

Say that all armies fall into one of two categories: competitive or casual. Obviously in an environment in which only casual or only competitive lists are played, the difference will hardly matter and what follows will have no application.

Consider that your army list must fall into one category or another and your opponent's must as well (gross simplification, but necessary). You have two options, which will result in two scenarios based on what your opponent brings.

Option 1: You Take a competitive list:
Scenario 1A: Your opponent takes competitive list as well.
Result: Most of the time this will result in a fairly evenly balanced game that should be fun for both players (obviously some older 'dexes may not be able to compete here).

Scenario 1B: Your opponent takes a casual list.
Result: You stomp your opponent, bad. While this is not likely to be as fun for you as when your opponent takes a similar list (unless you REALLY like stomping the weak), only a liar would deny the joy of seeing your army work perfectly. So you have fun.


Option 2:You Take a casual list
Scenario 2A: Your opponent takes a competitive list
Result: You get stomped, bad. Unless you're a masochist, this is probably no fun AT ALL for you.

Scenario 2B: Your opponent takes a casual list
Result: Much like scenario one, you will often have a good, close game with this matchup. Should be fun for both of you.

So when you take a competitive list you will be more likely to have fun, regardless of what your opponent brings. Granted, if you run into a casual list, it will be a dirty, shameful sort of fun but hey, it's better than losing, right? Therefore, people who play competitive lists tend to have more fun playing games. It seems reasonable to assume that those who have more fun playing the games will stay in the hobby longer. Also, you'll have people abandoning their casual lists as they realize (subconciously or consciously) the advantages of competitive gaming given the scenarios above.

The obvious solution, if you are a player who enjoys casual play, is to TALK to your gaming group and ask them to bring casual lists against you.

I bring competitive lists that work on principles of redundancy and synergy. There is nothing I hope to see more than someone that will completely crush me - because then I can learn from it and improve.

Normal, well-adjusted adults take loss in stride and learn from it. Those with self-esteem issues instead point to everything external for blame, never once considering that the fault may lie with them (blame the dice, blame the opponent's list, etc.)

On another note, I want to make it clear that bringing a coherent and competant list does not make you a WAAC gamer, it just means you have the ability to put something competitive together and pilot it to a win. Playing for fun is not exclusive to bringing a non-synergistic list. This is a legitimate facet of the game, and it is certainly not breaking any rules. Should we also attack the good painters?

I play this hobby, I don't live it.

My life is pretty diverse; I train and compete as a blue belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, continue to play soccer after 29yrs, construction project manager, like to go off-roading, etc, etc. When I game it is a relaxing fun time to mess around with military tactics that I learned while I was in the US Marine Corps. I will build an all comers list that I think is balanced when it comes to tournaments to see if tactics can overcome cheesiness.

Now the problem arises when some gamers define themselves by how they perform in a game of toy soldiers. Whether it is a justification of their obsession to the game or toy soldier superiority complex that gets fulfilled, they will continue to find the combination that results in their ego boost at the expense of enjoyable gaming.

Different strokes for different folks.