Are Dark Eldar really this dangerous?

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**Vasjendas**

Back to the OP topic:

Once you have the ravagers downed next priority I would suggest (if fielded) the raider with the archon and incubi retinue. A geared archon and a maxed out retinue of 9 in a raider can be hard to handle in H2H. 27 Power Weapon Attacks on WS 5 STR 4 INIT 5 plus the archon and combat drug attacks. You also want to down the HQ unit and prevent the possible use of a Webway portal to deploy Talos and foot sloggin Wyches.

Wyches would be next in H2H they do well especially in miring your heavy H2H units. They die VERY easily to ranged weapons.

Basically down the heavy support then stop the H2H coming up the board. If there are any raider squads left they should be easy pickings.

**rowan341**

So priority order ?

ravagers>raiders>archon and friends>wyches>what is left that right? or what needs changing/adding?

**Clthomps**

Thats about right, jet bikes might be a threat in games larger than 1500.

**rowan341**

How many jet bikes should be considered a threat?

**BobTheChainsaw**

Footslogging marines = Asking for it.

**rowan341**

Not quite sure what you mean there. If you mean I don't have enough transports that's because I have always considered rhinos (now only against some armies) to be thin paper shells that upon explosion can cause harm to those inside.

**Norade**

Those 'paper shells' make you immune to bolter fire and force moderate strength weapons to crack them. They also allow for faster movement and can contest objectives once their squad piles out.

**BobTheChainsaw**

rowan341 wrote:Not quite sure what you mean there. If you mean I don't have enough transports that's because I have always considered rhinos (now only against some armies) to be thin paper shells that upon explosion can cause harm to those inside.

Well, you have thought wrong my friend. Rhinos/razorbacks are practically necessary for your squads.

**rowan341**

Main reason I don't like them for claws is I can potentially loose half my squad size. Also what squad should go in the one I have?

**BobTheChainsaw**

rowan341 wrote:Main reason I don't like them for claws is I can potentially loose half my squad size. Also what squad should go in the one I have?

Look, buddy. An explosion is a bunch of strength 4, AP- hits. Basically, it's a bolter shot to your marines. It takes roughly 10 bolter shots to kill a marine. It's not gonna kill that many, sheesh.

And you should probably get more.

**Clthomps**

Jetbikes should always be fielded in groups of 3. 2 will have blasters and one will be a meat shield. They basically fill the same role as melta speeders.

**rowan341**

Ok I encountered a group of 7 with Archon bringing it up to 8. Didn't really see the effectiveness though because they finished off the 2 grey hunters after a thorough pounding from blasts then the next time I saw then they got shredded by my termies.

**wuestenfux**

rowan341 wrote:Would the Archon be the lord type thing with 3 wounds that charged my terminators on a jet bike, killed nobody and died from one hit from a thunder hammer?

Nevertheless, the Archon is a one-man wrecking machine.
He should better (if on his own) charge Devastators, Havocs, 5 men combat-sqaudded Tactical units, but not cc oriented squads.

**rowan341**

Yeah but seeing as I use wolves I am quite close combat orientated at least as far as close combat troops in front of heavy weapons that is. And for some reason my heavy weapons always fail to hit.

**Iron_Chaos_Brute**

rowan341 wrote: And for some reason my heavy weapons always fail to hit.

Then you aren't using enough.

**rowan341**

rowan341 wrote:
And for some reason my heavy weapons always fail to hit.

Then you aren't using enough.

what, so your saying that 2 missiles and 2 HBs getting a total of 2 hits is normal?

**Iron_Chaos_Brute**

rowan341 wrote:
rowan341 wrote:
And for some reason my heavy weapons always fail to hit.

Then you aren't using enough.
what, so your saying that 2 missiles and 2 HBs getting a total of 2 hits is normal?

My point stands.....

**Thor665**

To clarify Iron_Chaos_Brute's point; if your dice with heavy weapons are indeed "bad" and you always roll less hits then normal...then take more heavy weapons then is normal so that your amount of hits will be better.

**rowan341**

Yeah I guess so. just starts to shoot up in points cost fast and they aren't the easiest things to get without spending loads :/

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I guess an easy fix is to take more missiles and memorise the blast rules.

**Iron_Chaos_Brute**

Well given this:

rowan341 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I guess an easy fix is to take more missiles and memorise the blast rules.

the first thing to do is become really familiar with the rules. Playing a game well starts and ends with a solid understanding of the rules.

Something else that might be helpful would be posting your list here for critique.

**rowan341**

2 priests, 15 claws, 9 hunters, 5 long fangs( 2HB, 2Missile), 5 wolf guard in terminator armour with thunder hammers.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
edit: Priests had lightning and 1 other each( tempest and world wolf)

**radiohazard**

I've not added anything to this thread yet, but with all the DE talk flying around I thought I'd chime in.

In the right hands DE are an amazing army and easily the most dangerous. With the amount of high strength ap 2 weapons they have on cheap transports and light vehicles, they can destroy one of the current metas deadliest archetypes - Mechanised Infantry.
They have only one major weakness and that is their fragility. On the offence, very little can stand against the DE. In defence though, DE will fall apart.
They suit an aggressive playing style, but with this aggression must come temperance and tactics.

IMO any opponent to Dark Eldar should have the following target priority:

Ravagers.
Lords Raider or Reaver unit he is with.
All other Raiders.
Foot Sloggers.

There's no point trying to avoid Dark Lance casualties (transports) as it will happen, but better losing the transports than the squishy bits inside that DE can just pick apart at will.

Slightly off topic...

Is the only way to win with DE in objective grabbing scenarios to table your opponent???

**Thor665**

radiohazard wrote:Is the only way to win with DE in objective grabbing scenarios to table your opponent???

Good gravy no. DE are stronger in objective scenarios then in Annihilation. They win the same way Mechdar does - via last turn contesting and claiming. DE are very good at taking objectives, they can just be weak at holding them so they don't play a game of early objective claiming like Marines do.

**radiohazard**

Ahhhh got ya, TY.
I take it the only reason that DE aren't as good in annihilation is due to their fragility???

**Thor665**

Well, fragility paired with the fact that most of their competitive lists involve meching up everything and consequently fielding 19+ killpoints in order to be any good at all.

**rowan341**

ok... only just noticed this

rowan341 wrote:
Main reason I don't like them for claws is I can potentially loose half my squad size. Also what squad should go in the one I have?

Look, buddy. An explosion is a bunch of strength 4, AP- hits. Basically, it's a bolter shot to your marines. It takes roughly 10 bolter shots to kill a marine. It's not gonna kill that many, sheesh.

And you should probably get more.

I was referring to the fact that claws can be squads of 15 not that I would expect them to all die horribly if a rhino went down with them inside

**Dashofpepper**

Thor665 wrote:Well, fragility paired with the fact that most of their competitive lists involve meching up everything and consequently fielding 19+ killpoints in order to be any good at all.

So few?

I typically end up with about 24 at 2k.

**rowan341**

Wow that is a lot of kill points. Does that mean that if you can kill all the transports in a dark eldar army in annihilation they almost certainly have already lost?

**Dashofpepper**

rowan341 wrote:Wow that is a lot of kill points. Does that mean that if you can kill all the transports in a dark eldar army in annihilation they almost certainly have already lost?

Unless they table you, possibly.

**rowan341**

By table do you mean wipe you out 100%?