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Made in cn
Blackclad Wayfarer





From England. Living in Shanghai

IC's all have move through cover.

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Made in us
Sneaky Lictor





GAUNTS HAVE MOVE THROUGH COVER???


Pink and silver mech eldar- suckzorz
Hive fleet - unstoppable
09-10 tourney record (small 10-20 person events)- 24/4/1
CAG 2010-3rd

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







Really though, what *really* irks me about Tyranids? The Netlists. You know, *those* netlists that insist that you must take a unit of Hive Guard, a Zoanthroape unit, and DOOM OF YOUR ENTIRE ARMY...
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Golden Throne

This is coming from a 'nids player btw. Not someone that played them once and thought it was fun. Or saw a fielded army and thought it looked clever.

'nids have a neat codex... I have a full 5th edition 3500pt + army that includes 6 mycetic spores, tyrannofexes, tervigons, swarmlord, Doom, Zoeys, broodlords, gobs of genestealers, devil guants etc.

They can't stand against 5th edition mech. SW own them and IG could leafblow them(I specialize in IG dating back to 2nd edition).

I can't say they are lower then the older codex's (I also play DH/GK) but, when compared to SW, BA, or even Vulkan armies... its not even close. Playing against bugs
is alot like space hulk. Its challenging but the other army "should" win. Opponents like to play them because it fun and challenging, but for the 'nid players (beside the guys that claim they never lose??? level of opponents???) its pretty much playing to have fun/fluffy goodness.

So the short of it. Mid tier army that won't win any trophies. I might be wrong, but I have boxed the bugs and have released the "hammer" once again.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Hmm I thought by the last tournament standings the top 3 were tied with wins and those being I.G. vanilla marines, and eldar, I'd say nids are in top 7 or so at the moment, better than tau but nothing super amazing.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yes, pretty much
   
Made in us
Implacable Black Templar Initiate




Poconos, PA

I think the Tyranids only took a single step up in the ladder from where their old codex had them. They are not a top tier army but rest in the average to above average level, not the greatest but not bad by far. Imperial Guard and Space Wolves got MASSIVE boosts in their updates (Blood Angels got a boost too but I don't see it as big). The shame now is that any time a new codex is released and it doesn't come close to the "power level" of the IG or SW, then it must be a bad codex. This shouldn't be the case at all but most people think this way now, through it doesn't help that the Tyranids came out in the middle of the 3 other big power updates.

4500 Points
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







Again, I find that with the exception of Necrons, the gap between armies in 40k is a lot closer than people give credit for.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





SirRouga wrote:...boosts in their updates...The shame now is that any time a new codex is released and it doesn't come close to the "power level" of the IG or SW, then it must be a bad codex. This shouldn't be the case at all...


That's a really great point.

Assuming you think that the Tyranid codex was written at the "just about right" power level I agree. That saying some advantages (like unique powers of the Mawloc/Doom/Tervigon/Swarmlord) balanced by the drawbacks the dex has of no tanks, speed and position issues and vulnerability of fearless in HTH and combo charge (generally speaking in huge terms here) I would completely agree! I think every codex should balance advantage with drawbacks, and possibly also cost but hopefully more drawbacks than cost.

Had other dexes been written similarly, then I think the game would be better off for it. As a long time player I have never understood the seeming absence of an Editor on the codex team, someone who guides the creative direction and especially the balance and special unique powers written into a codex. For example:

SPACE WOLVES GOT
Counter Charge
+1 Attack (CC weapons and Bolters)
Independent Character level squad upgrade leaders
Loads of Special Characters (Some with force org slot abilities!)
Incredible psychic powers
Utilitarian Wolf Guard rules
Frost Blades and Wolf Claws
Thunderwolves
The Entire Space Marine Armory

at the balance of

???
Terminators don't Teleport
10 capacity drop pods
Attack Bikes and Land Speeder Storms?
Tech Marine Guns

That's a pretty high power trade from regular marines, lots more bonuses, for mere a pittance of drawbacks.

BLOOD ANGELS GOT

FNP Troops
FNP Granting Chars
Loads of Special Chars (Some with Force Org Mods)
2 Unit carrying Flying transports
Special Dreadnoughts and weapons
Librarian Dreadnoughts
Meltapistols and Handlfamers
Assault Marine Troops
Dedicated Landraider Transports
The Marine Armory and Motorpool
Baal Predators

For the cost of
???
10 capacity drop pods
Tech Marine Guns


TYRANIDS GOT
Special Characters (some grant FNP)
Drop Pods
NEW Monstrous Creatures
Shrikes
Flying Swarms
Ymgarl
Hive Guard
Lance Psychic powers
Warrior Troops

For the cost of:
Cheap Carnifexes
General MC point increases
No Drop Pod assault rule
Worse Hive Mind Control
Harder to use Psychic defense
2+ armor saves
Invulnerable Saves
Vulnerability to instant death
Synergy dependence
Combo Charge Achilles heal
No Tanks/transports (only army in the game now with this one)

In summary, other "NEW" codices got awesome new powers, and though the Tyranids did too, they had a much more balanced set of vulnerabilities to go with them. The Marine + dexes give up very little for their amazing new powers by comparison. Wouldn't it have been great if the Marine dexes came with more global limitations to balance them?

Interesting.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Golden Throne

Great post Augustus.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







Space Wolves don't get Combat Tactics or Combat Squads, their Heavy Weapons are concentrated into glass cannon Devestator-equivalents (though they are cheaper there to offset the not getting the free Multimeltas in Tacsquads), Wolf Guard can't pull off the Vulkanator Raider Rock, they don't get a Master of the Forge (meaning less Dreads than either Marine army, and no Ironclads)...the differences do mount up so they're not simply Space Marines++.

Blood Angels of course have the general price hikes on a lot of stuff barring their cheaper Devestators (which of course compete with Rifledreads. And of course, pricier Hammernators (not Vulkanized).

As for Tyranids, you have Hive Commander to circumvent not having Drop Pod Assault (let's not get into RAWfish fights about on-off-the table, you didn't have Invulerable saves worth talking about last edition anyway (ooh, a 6+. How intimidating), and I would like to know *how* you managed that combo-charge...
   
Made in au
Three Color Minimum






in response to Augustus (and MagicJuggler);

great conversation!

It is difficult to compare units like Long Fangs with Devastators, because all though they fill the same FoC slot, one could argue they play different roles.
This is why it would be difficult to come up with a similar analysis of old IG dex to new IG dex; so much is new, and the units that are still there are likely to fill a different niche in the army (largely as a result of new units).
I think this exists in the new nid dex as well (with all the new units).

sorry for stating the obvious!

[ ]1500 (+3000 wip)
[ ]1500
[ ]1500 wip
 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Grand Rapids Metro

I think too many people look at Space Wolves and Blood Angels...and just assume they're awesome.

As far as I have played against them...I have been underwhelmed.


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