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pdawg517 wrote:I think its a fun piece of wargear and could be good for some crowd control before you assault. It would be a fun conversion! I think of it as an under-slung grenade launcher on a bolter.

Well one I'm planning to do in the not-so near future is the chapter master of the Imperial Fists. Picture: on the Chapter Master beastiary in the SM 'dex.

Artificer armour
Thunder Hammer
Thunder Hammer
Auxiliary Grenade Launcher
Digital Weapons

210pts of conversion goodness!

what does the auxillary launcher do again?

Nantukoshade wrote:what does the auxillary launcher do again?

Well, I'm not sure what the rules are gonna say about me saying this, but:

it can be fired with another weapon, it has 12" range and it can either fire S6 AP4 assault 1 or S3 AP6 assault 1 - krak and frag 'nades respectively.

OOOOOhhhh, its the same thing that the scout bikers have. Hmm, that could be pretty cool then. Just a little boost in firepower.

Nantukoshade wrote:OOOOOhhhh, its the same thing that the scout bikers have. Hmm, that could be pretty cool then. Just a little boost in firepower.

No, it's not the same thing. Similar, but different.

Sanctjud wrote:

Nantukoshade wrote:OOOOOhhhh, its the same thing that the scout bikers have. Hmm, that could be pretty cool then. Just a little boost in firepower.

No, it's not the same thing. Similar, but different.

Yeah. That's the astartes grenade launcher - it's got longer range IIRC and it is TL. (edit: and rapid fire.)

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Sanctjud wrote:

Nantukoshade wrote:OOOOOhhhh, its the same thing that the scout bikers have. Hmm, that could be pretty cool then. Just a little boost in firepower.

No, it's not the same thing. Similar, but different.

Yeah. That's the astartes grenade launcher - it's got longer range IIRC and it is TL. (edit: and rapid fire.)

IIRC, there is no twin-linked.

As for the OP.
Go for the captain if you want scoring bikers.
Go for the chappy if you have assault termies or (for flavor reasons) assault marines.
Else, go for the handy dandy Libby who is really the jack of all-trades IMO.

Gonna hafta get me a Libby. Are they only really good with the Termie armor and a Storm shield?

Slightly OT:
What are peoples thoughts with Libby powers? Choose them when you put them in your list or select which ones you are taking as you start a game (ie: tailor to your opponents)

Back on topic:
I pretty much agree with Sanctjud

You have to choose them when the Libby is selected for your list.

^ true.

Terminator armour and SS is almost manditory - the libby just isn't that survivable unfortunately.

Null zone is important in tourny games, where it will devestate daemon armies. The hood is good for shutting down psychic powers, making Eldar players cry.

It is almost always worth paying the 50pts for the epistolery, but you have to keep the libby safe and pick your fights well. For instance, a libby with quickening can quite often kill ICs. Same against Carnifex's, but with might of the ancients instead, then force weapon. That's what makes Tiggy so good, but he dies more often than not before he can make his points up.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:^ true.

Terminator armour and SS is almost manditory - the libby just isn't that survivable unfortunately.

Null zone is important in tourny games, where it will devestate daemon armies. The hood is good for shutting down psychic powers, making Eldar players cry.

It is almost always worth paying the 50pts for the epistolery, but you have to keep the libby safe and pick your fights well. For instance, a libby with quickening can quite often kill ICs. Same against Carnifex's, but with might of the ancients instead, then force weapon. That's what makes Tiggy so good, but he dies more often than not before he can make his points up.

Id rather take a plain Libby. That will save me 90 pts or in other terms another Typhoon...Epistolary is very seldom worth it. SS is worth it if you want to have your Libby charge with the TH/SS termies. personally I prefer to keep him in the LR for the extra range and survivability

Libby = hood.
Anything else is gravy really.

I have one on a bike...only cause I play a biker army.

But a fast moving Hood and (Null or Avenger) are awesome things.

In the new codex you don't cant upgrade to epistolaries, or anything like that. they just get two powers.

Nantukoshade wrote:In the new codex you don't cant upgrade to epistolaries, or anything like that. they just get two powers.

Yes, you can.

Epistolery is 50pts, and it allows you to use an additional psychic power per turn - 2 instead of 1.

Rubbish at that cost, so it's next to not existing IMO.

Sanctjud wrote:Rubbish at that cost, so it's next to not existing IMO.

True. But if it does pay off, then it's well worth it. Personally, I wouldn't take it in a serious match either. Apocalypse, now that's a different story..

I love taking lysander as you can be really cocky with him. For example you can run him on his own into a squad of terminators and mop them up.

SM Captains can be MC orientated if properly equiped. TERMINATOR ARMOUR, TH, SS + any other wargear you want, only problem? The exact same that all terminators suffer from RELENTLESS and therefore Sweeping Advances are off the cards. Damn! I have used this tactics against 'NIDS it works a treat every MC comes barrelling at the Captain to bring him down while the rest of the SM force chews them up with Firepower, plus with a Command Squad of Plasma's or combi bolters plus throw in a Chaplain as back up and watch your DEV Squads and Scout Snipers eat Tyranids.

Have to agree with all the votes on a Null Zone librarian.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Nantukoshade wrote:In the new codex you don't cant upgrade to epistolaries, or anything like that. they just get two powers.

Yes, you can.

Epistolery is 50pts, and it allows you to use an additional psychic power per turn - 2 instead of 1.

Yup, I appologize. Apparently I can't read. Its the first upgrade for the libby listed. Muh bad. That said, is it worth it?

Nantukoshade wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Nantukoshade wrote:In the new codex you don't cant upgrade to epistolaries, or anything like that. they just get two powers.

Yes, you can.

Epistolery is 50pts, and it allows you to use an additional psychic power per turn - 2 instead of 1.

Yup, I appologize. Apparently I can't read. Its the first upgrade for the libby listed. Muh bad. That said, is it worth it?

Not really - generally the libby will die too easily for it to work. The only way it'll really ever work is if you use it to rape a special character/independant character/MC in combat with a combo of two powers.

Captains are cool until you realize that they'll lose out to any proper dedicated CC unit.

Nantukoshade wrote:Gonna hafta get me a Libby. Are they only really good with the Termie armor and a Storm shield?

In a mech list they work in a razor back with null zone because they can still use their power from inside. In a rhino they can use shooty powers out of the fire ports but then you can't have a full tac squad in there. So in a mech list a libby still adds utility and doesnt need termie armor.

Fafnir wrote:Captains are cool until you realize that they'll lose out to any proper dedicated CC unit.

That is quite true...but...you don't send the Captain into fights alone though
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As for the worthiness of the Level 2 Libby, the question is what combos are you looking to do. Will it really be used that often? The oppurtunity cost is actually quite high as you could get another unit with the cost like that (attack bike or landspeeder).
______________
Termy armor is only good if you are risk averse and really want that 3++ for WHEN he perils.
Otherwise, it comes with some strings attached that T. Armor .

you know, you don't need terminator armour to have a storm shield. Plus, he allready has a 4++, so paying so much points to not perform sweeping advances, and to pay even more points for one better inv., doesn't seem worth it to me.

waasssdddd wrote:you know, you don't need terminator armour to have a storm shield. Plus, he allready has a 4++, so paying so much points to not perform sweeping advances, and to pay even more points for one better inv., doesn't seem worth it to me.

As old as this topic is...I was talking about the Libby...please look in his entry again to find no option for storm shields unless it's with the TDA.

I know you are talking about the Captain if you are mentioning the 4++ and the ability to purchase the SS without the TDA...and I agree with you.
But, if the Captain is joining up with termies... it doesn't matter too much. The difference is, he can DS with them if they need to DS. As for the better Inv save. Whether SS or AA, the bonus is marginal... but in my experience, it's always worth it when it works. .

I have to say, the IH's 4++ never seems to work for me (or atleast not enough). Besides, if that 15pt upgrade keeps your captain/librarian/whatever alive from instant death even once, it's made its points back many times over. More than likely, it'll save him lots of times. SS or not, I still don't recommend throwing the captain/w/e against Str 8+ anyway.. he's best used to just make those MCs and MEQs cry.