Librarian vs chaplain vs captain

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**waasssdddd**

I was wondering which is beter in a vanilla list, and what loadout is the best (librarian powers included). Also, wich is more cost-effective.

**wuestenfux**

Well, I always take a Librarian in my vanilla army;
terminator armor, storm shield, nullzone, and whatnot.

**GCMandrake**

Librarian is usually preferred. The combination of a psychic hood to neuter the enemy's own psychic abilities, and Null Zone which makes Nob Bikers and Assault Terminators much easier to kill makes it very useful. Keep him cheap with no extra wargear, take Avenger as the second power, and put him with a tactical squad and you can't go far wrong.

**tedurur**

GCMandrake wrote:Librarian is usually preferred. The combination of a psychic hood to neuter the enemy's own psychic abilities, and Null Zone which makes Nob Bikers and Assault Terminators much easier to kill makes it very useful. Keep him cheap with no extra wargear, take Avenger as the second power, and put him with a tactical squad and you can't go far wrong.

This or a Captain on bike to get bikes as troops.

**Catyrpelius**

I vote for the Master of the Forge

Or a chaplin attached to a squad of assult terminators

**Gorechild**

Chaplain in termie armour in LR with termies with lightning claws. re-roll's are fun =P

**JSK-Fox**

Catyrpelius wrote:I vote for the Master of the Forge

I second this vote.

Also, I prefer having a Captain with my MotF, because Captains are awesome. Not bike though, because I don't like bikes that much.

**waasssdddd**

Thanx! jus tone more question: which one works best with termies and wich with assault termies?

**wuestenfux**

For shooty Termies I'd consider Lysander or a Librarian (as said above).
For Assault Termies in a LR, I'd take Chaplain thanks to his special rules.

**waasssdddd**

Is lysander actually worth it?

**wuestenfux**

Well, Lysander is worth it.
Let him lead a 10 men Termie unit with 2 cyclones.
Bolter drill increases the number of wounds and he's a beast in cc.
Once I played him in an RTT and he did very well; I won it.

**waasssdddd**

Did not know that, thanks!

**Sanctjud**

Captain is only good for Scoring Bikers.
Chappy is only good with termies.
MoTF if you want 4+ dreads.
Else:
Go for the Libby for the utility.

**waasssdddd**

Is libbi's smite any good?

**H.C.118**

somewhat, but what hinders it is the 12" range and the S4

**Ed_Bodger**

This thread comes around far too often: content is always the same only the title differs

**imweasel**

waasssdddd wrote:Thanx! jus tone more question: which one works best with termies and wich with assault termies?

Cassius is the best with assault termies.

**Grey Templar**

Librarians are best in Termie armor with SS and Nullzone and either GoI or Avenger.

Chaplains are the next best HQ and pair best with either Assault Terminators or Assault marines

MotF is best if you want to run 4-6 dreadnoughts.

Captains are generic and bland. the only support they can bring is to make bikes scoring(if you do this you go big or go nowhere) and thats about it

**skysky**

I'm going to try putting Vulkan with assault termies. He gives rerolls(for hammers) to hit after the first round AND if YOU get assaulted. He also has a mastercrafted relic lade that goes at Ini., he can be pretty nasty in CC when he hits then the hammers start'a'swingin'. He doesn't bring OB or fearless but he has benefits of his own.

In a 750 game I would cheap, mean and brings the most for points value. Libr. in termie armor.

**JSK-Fox**

WHY THE GAK DOES EVERYONE HATE CAPTIANS?
I love em.

**Nurglitch**

Captains are great. Only via Captains can you have an all-Bike force, or a Command Squad. Captain Sicarius is my favourite though since he enhances the entire army.

**Grey Templar**

the difference is that Sicarius actually enhances the army.

a captain doesn't do that.

Captains only give you access to command squads(which are subpar units unless played right) and an all bike army, but that is a very specific play style and very few people actually use that.

Libbys and Chaplains add to the army without additional points cost.

**Nurglitch**

Command Squads enhance the army via the Company Banners, while Captains are actually able to kill stuff, unlike Chaplains and Librarians. Librarians are useful, certainly, but two of them makes them both vulnerable. It's not like Chaos Lords and Chaos Sorcerers where the Sorcerers can fight their way out of wet paper bags when necessary. Hyperbole aside, W2 and no Invulnerable save is weak, but survivable if he has a Command Squad to hole up in.

I'm not too keen on Chaplains because they make units Fearless, and while Fearless is nice it wastes Combat Tactics. If I wanted a Fearless Space Marine army I'd use Codex: Dark Angels. The Litanies of Battle are nice, but I'd rather have both the bludgeoning power of the Captain and the ability to run when the going gets tough.

I guess the difference between Captain, Chaplains, and Librarians is an inverse relation between the ability to kill stuff, and the ability to enable other parts of your army to kill stuff. After taking a Captain and a Librarian there's really no room for a Chaplain. It's one of the good things about the Blood Angels Codex is that it allows Chaplains to be taken as Elite choices.

**Newt-Of-Death**

I always take a jump chaplain with my assault marines. Re-roll hits!

Librarian goes with the terminators.

I like pigging out on my HQ, but if your going vanilla Id just take a Master and keep him back for a bit to get that orbital blast!

**Jihallah**

Catyrpelius wrote:I vote for the Master of the Forge

Master of the forge with a conversion beamer on a BIKE!

...and a thunderhammer for that real Bike ganger feel

(Disclaimer- Jihallah only ever plays vanilla SM for fun!)

**waasssdddd**

Is MotF better with a servo, or a conversion beamer?

**krusty**

waasssdddd wrote:Is MotF better with a servo, or a conversion beamer?

both are good, but only if hes on a bike...
if you are playing mech heavy, put him on a bike and hang around the back to fix up your gun line of tanks...

if you only have a few bits of armor, run him around on the bike and let him zap gak with the beamer, but make sure theres a counter assault unit to keep him safe...

**waasssdddd**

I think captains are the way to go if you're playing a balanced game. just like his marines he's a jack of all trades, master of none.

**Dr. Ew**

I've had good luck with a captain supported by sternguards against horde armies, although I am extremely partial to my Termie Librarian right now... maybe I'll use both next game.

As for smite, AP 2 and assault 4 are hard to say no to, even if the range isn't great. The Avenger and Gate of Infinity are also pretty useful. Vortex of Doom can be awesome, or very, very bad; usually it seems a little too risky, especially if my Libby is surrounded by units I like.

I have yet to field an assault Chaplain, so I can't really comment on their usefulness, other than to say that I know a number SM players who swear by them.

**TheBlackVanguard**

The Librarian was a personal favorite of mine though I usually took two HQ's, either Pedro or the Chaplain as the second.