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JohnHwangDD wrote:Baby Cobra?

Yeah, that'd be nice!

In fact, a playable (baby) Cobra in normal 40k games. Possibly, I'd consider 2 or 3 of them (naked) in larger pt games.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:
1. rhinos are not immune to small arms fire.

Rhino’s are basically immune to small arms fire and, unless the controller of the Rhino is exceptionally stupid or his opponent is exceptionally lucky, that Rhino will almost certainly continue to perform its battlefield roll while shrugging off whatever small arms fire that comes its way.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:
2. rhinos can be hurt by anything with a str 4 or higher, especially in cc. A wraithlord requires a minimum of str 5.

Rhino’s can be glanced with anything strength 4 or higher but can also require 6’s to hit by moving 12” or more. A Wraithlord is always at WS v WS. A Rhino can move 12” to avoid CC, a Wraithlord can’t. Most players would agree that the REAL danger to both Rhino’s and Wraithlords lie in a buried str 8 power fist… Even an immobile rhino only has a 22.22% chance of being destroyed compared to the Wraithlord’s 25% chance of taking a wound.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:
3. Rhinos can't tie units up in cc where they can never have a chance to hurt them.

Arguably, the ability to simply drive away from CC is just as good as having the ability to tie something up. Add that to the fact that a squad that was engaged in CC with the Rhino can be shot at in the following player turn I’d say this point isn’t really that relevant.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:
As for nightbringers other powers, same str as wraithlord, 2 more attacks, 2 more wounds, 1 point better init, frags, ignore invulnerable and a "wooo scary". The wraithlord has better guns and the cost reduced a bit for ghost sight. Nightbringers cost is artificially reduced because of the balancing factor of phase out.

I don’t agree with your point comparison. You seem to be equivocating 2 more attacks, 2 more wounds, 1 better init, frags, invulnerable, ability to IGNORE ALL invulnerable saves and a decent special power to the wraithlords ability to PURCHASE guns that, from an efficiency standpoint, aren’t even that good? Honestly? What’s more, you’re comparing a codex that came out in 2006 to a codex that came out when? 2002? I don’t think comparing a Wraithlord with a 3++ to a Nightbringer supports your position in a valid way.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:
I'd cost a 3++ wraithlord at about 200pts. They're tougher than a landraider and effectively invincible in cc (unless you have an entire unit with str5+).

A Landraider not only packs 2 twin-linked lascannons (usually) but is an assault vehicle giving its cargo an effective 20” radius threat zone (arguably the biggest justification for the vehicle’s cost)… A BS 4 lascannon has a 3.7% chance of cracking a landriader compared to the 14.8% chance of inflicting a wound on a wraithlord with an invulnerable save so “survivability” is quite subjective… especially when you consider the Landraider is basically immune to Missile Launchers and most Power Fists.