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A bolter round is NOT a sabotted round. A sabot sheds/discards immediately after firing- allowing a smaller caliber submunition to be fired from a larger bore. This is done for armor penetration and ballistic considerations. Theyre kinetic penetrators so its their velocity and mass(hence using depleted uranium) that gives them thier punch. Theyre simple, and cheaper to produce than HEAT rounds.

A bolter round is a mini gyrojet design- that means its a little rocket that stabilizes by spinning rather than using fins.

In Canada, we can't even get burst weapons. And Tanks? Forget it. We can get Semi Auto or Bolt Action Weapons, but that's it. Sure, it results in awesome marksmanship, but I'd love to own -anything- Automatic just for the sake of saying I own it

Actually it is possible to own automatic weapons in Canada, the kicker is it can take several years to do so and there are severe restrictions.

Theres restrictions in the US as well. You cant just go down to a gun shop and by a selective fire/full auto weapon. Takes licensing, background checks, and alot of red tape.

Ratbarf wrote:

In Canada, we can't even get burst weapons. And Tanks? Forget it. We can get Semi Auto or Bolt Action Weapons, but that's it. Sure, it results in awesome marksmanship, but I'd love to own -anything- Automatic just for the sake of saying I own it

Actually it is possible to own automatic weapons in Canada, the kicker is it can take several years to do so and there are severe restrictions.

I've never heard of this. As far as I'm aware (which is to say, very much so for obvious reasons) the only thing that a restricted firearms license covers here is handguns. Automatics are still a no-no for the civilian sector. Not that you can even buy one in this country anyway. And I don't want to be the guy caught at the border smuggling an assault rifle into the country

Yes it's from a movie. Yes it looks ridiculous. Yes Saiga 12 shotguns are modified to a very similar pattern. Just a neat pic I thought I would post.

I've never heard of this. As far as I'm aware (which is to say, very much so for obvious reasons) the only thing that a restricted firearms license covers here is handguns. Automatics are still a no-no for the civilian sector. Not that you can even buy one in this country anyway. And I don't want to be the guy caught at the border smuggling an assault rifle into the country

There was a small documentary on the CBC a few years back when Paul Martin was still Prime Minister about a gun club for owners of Fully Automatic weapons and what the Long Gun Registry meant to them. They all had assault rifles.

We actually have more restrictions on rifles and shotguns then we do on handguns.

a 12 year old can own a shotgun, but you have to be 18+(IIRC) to own a handgun.


any weapon that can be easily concealed requires extensive background checks as well.

it is also perfectly legal to carry a weapon around in public as long as its fully visable(although you can't go on school campus's and other certain places) and the weapon is empty and any ammnition is not touching the gun itself.

Ratbarf wrote:

I've never heard of this. As far as I'm aware (which is to say, very much so for obvious reasons) the only thing that a restricted firearms license covers here is handguns. Automatics are still a no-no for the civilian sector. Not that you can even buy one in this country anyway. And I don't want to be the guy caught at the border smuggling an assault rifle into the country

There was a small documentary on the CBC a few years back when Paul Martin was still Prime Minister about a gun club for owners of Fully Automatic weapons and what the Long Gun Registry meant to them. They all had assault rifles.

Must be an Ontario/Eastern thing. In BC, you'll get jail time for posession of an Automatic Weapon.

Grey Templar wrote:We actually have more restrictions on rifles and shotguns then we do on handguns.

a 12 year old can own a shotgun, but you have to be 18+(IIRC) to own a handgun.


any weapon that can be easily concealed requires extensive background checks as well.

it is also perfectly legal to carry a weapon around in public as long as its fully visable(although you can't go on school campus's and other certain places) and the weapon is empty and any ammnition is not touching the gun itself.

Im not sure where you are getting your info- but going by federal firearms laws you're incorrect.

You have to be 18 or older to purchase a rifle or shotgun(and ammuntion for them). While many minors 'own' guns, legally its their parents that own them.

The handgun age is 21, to purchase both the handgun and ammunition.

Concealable weapons require no more extensive a background check than any other handgun- its the same for an 8" revolver as for a pocket sized automatic.

As for carrying an non-concealed weapon in public- thats widely variable by state and local laws. In states like Texas, Arizona, and many southern states you can carry a sidearm with no problems(exceptions are usually bars, schools, hospitals, and federal buildings). But if I drive into California with my sidearm in open view its illegal- the 'not touching ammo' thing Ive never heard of- its usually a requirement to carry it in a separate case or even a separate 'compartment' when in a car(that means the gun or ammo has to be in the trunk or a locked container).

http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/

http://www.gunlaws.com/links/

Are good resources for finding out your state and local gun laws

Henners91 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:you may belive that Bolters don't leave casings, BUT the actual models beg to differ.

if you look closely you can see the ejection port and don't tell me that its for Shells that don't fire properly. I doubt Bolt shells misfire very often(never had it happen in the fluff i have read) Besides if it was, why would the gun need a port on BOTH sides of the gun?(its so the gun can be used with either hand)

I've seen people paint that bit as a screen displaying an ammo count... But that wouldn't explain why there's a bit that probably moves back and fourth along it to eject casings.

That bit is a bolt, a true bolt in an assault rifle known as the bolter.

Stormrider wrote:

Henners91 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:you may belive that Bolters don't leave casings, BUT the actual models beg to differ.

if you look closely you can see the ejection port and don't tell me that its for Shells that don't fire properly. I doubt Bolt shells misfire very often(never had it happen in the fluff i have read) Besides if it was, why would the gun need a port on BOTH sides of the gun?(its so the gun can be used with either hand)

I've seen people paint that bit as a screen displaying an ammo count... But that wouldn't explain why there's a bit that probably moves back and fourth along it to eject casings.

That bit is a bolt, a true bolt in an assault rifle known as the bolter.

Ummm, Im an amateur gunsmith, and Ive never heard it called a 'bolter'. Its the bolt, bolt carrier, bolt mechanism etc, never heard it called a 'bolter', or even referred to as such in any manual or on any of the ranges I've spent alot of time at.

Mistress of minis wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:We actually have more restrictions on rifles and shotguns then we do on handguns.

a 12 year old can own a shotgun, but you have to be 18+(IIRC) to own a handgun.


any weapon that can be easily concealed requires extensive background checks as well.

it is also perfectly legal to carry a weapon around in public as long as its fully visable(although you can't go on school campus's and other certain places) and the weapon is empty and any ammnition is not touching the gun itself.

Im not sure where you are getting your info- but going by federal firearms laws you're incorrect.

You have to be 18 or older to purchase a rifle or shotgun(and ammuntion for them). While many minors 'own' guns, legally its their parents that own them.

The handgun age is 21, to purchase both the handgun and ammunition.

Concealable weapons require no more extensive a background check than any other handgun- its the same for an 8" revolver as for a pocket sized automatic.

As for carrying an non-concealed weapon in public- thats widely variable by state and local laws. In states like Texas, Arizona, and many southern states you can carry a sidearm with no problems(exceptions are usually bars, schools, hospitals, and federal buildings). But if I drive into California with my sidearm in open view its illegal- the 'not touching ammo' thing Ive never heard of- its usually a requirement to carry it in a separate case or even a separate 'compartment' when in a car(that means the gun or ammo has to be in the trunk or a locked container).

http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/

http://www.gunlaws.com/links/

Are good resources for finding out your state and local gun laws

I live in CA and you can carry a gun in full view in public as long as it isn't loaded and any ammo isn't in contact with the weapon.

its something the cops and other wierdo people sometimes forget, but there are people who are doing it to prove they can.

Mistress of minis wrote:

Stormrider wrote:

Henners91 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:you may belive that Bolters don't leave casings, BUT the actual models beg to differ.

if you look closely you can see the ejection port and don't tell me that its for Shells that don't fire properly. I doubt Bolt shells misfire very often(never had it happen in the fluff i have read) Besides if it was, why would the gun need a port on BOTH sides of the gun?(its so the gun can be used with either hand)

I've seen people paint that bit as a screen displaying an ammo count... But that wouldn't explain why there's a bit that probably moves back and fourth along it to eject casings.

That bit is a bolt, a true bolt in an assault rifle known as the bolter.

Ummm, Im an amateur gunsmith, and Ive never heard it called a 'bolter'. Its the bolt, bolt carrier, bolt mechanism etc, never heard it called a 'bolter', or even referred to as such in any manual or on any of the ranges I've spent alot of time at.

Sorry, my post was a bit unclear. The little tab sticking out is the bolt handle. A bolt for the Bolter

I think that now the pistol ammunition is .75 while the rifle is .998. Also, for Soroitas and Arbitus forces, they make a smaller pattern that allows regular people to fire them.

If the recoil is as it was in the video, it must have been a .75, which like you guys said is a 12 gauge. If you want the true Astartes bolter, you'll need one of these, but only 5% bigger.

 VikingScott wrote:
I remember bolters being .75 calibre.

Same caliber as the Brown Bess Musket. British game, British Empire Caliber..wonder why

ace101 wrote:I think that now the pistol ammunition is .75 while the rifle is .998.

Not as per GW's fluff.
A misconception within the fandom exists in that there is a model 998 boltgun (there also is a model 482), but all the books still only talk about caliber .75 for all bolters, whilst heavy bolters fire cal 1.00 ammunition.

ace101 wrote:Also, for Soroitas and Arbitus forces, they make a smaller pattern that allows regular people to fire them.

If they are smaller, they still fire the same ammunition. GW's Inquisitor RPG made no difference between Marine and non-Marine bolt weapons whatsoever.
Instead, the main problems of bolt weapons are usually presented as the need for regular maintenance, spare parts and ammunition as well as their "great weight and cumbersome nature". You simply need to be very strong or wear powered armour to carry them and their ammunition, and even most of those Guardsmen who would have little problem lifting one will quickly notice their weight once they are on a forced march or in the midst of exhausting combat. Heavy bolters are also called "backbreakers" for a reason, hence the IG tends to use two men to transport them and their ammo, with Sergeant Harker (a true beast of a man) being the one known exception from the rule. It's less of an issue for gang warfare in Necromunda, apparently, but given their environment and purpose, those guys simply do not need to be as mobile as an infantry team deployed off-world.

Unfortunately, many fans, including novel writers and RPG designers, have since escalated the minor differences as they exist in GW's world to whole new levels, ranging from a ridiculous size (1.3 meters were mentioned earlier - I have no idea where this number is from, but going by the models that would make the weapon longer than a Space Marine's leg ... going by Gav Thorpe's lifesize drawing it actually looks like half that size at best) or even notable differences in the damage they do.
Different interpretations of the setting in itself are not a problem, but as the past has shown their fans have a tendency to present and declare them as "the one true thing" rather than just another version of the 41st millennium. I did so myself until I learned that GW, FFG and all the various Black Library authors do not actually pursue a uniform representation.

ace101 wrote:If the recoil is as it was in the video, it must have been a .75, which like you guys said is a 12 gauge. If you want the true Astartes bolter, you'll need one of these, but only 5% bigger.

Again going by GW fluff, we do not know whether these guns actually have any recoil. What we know is that the bolt "leaves the muzzle at low velocity" (quote from the Wargear book), that it has a stubby look, and that it is 0.75 inches in diameter. That's it. For an accurate calculation of kinetic energy, we would need to know the exact speed and weight of the projectile - and that is before we factor in the possible inclusion of mechanisms within the weapon intended to lower or outright nullify recoil. For example, see the "blast compensator" here, a principle apparently somewhat related to that of the real-world recoilless rifle:



So, with .75 the standard caliber of all boltguns, shotgun shells seem like an adequate comparison. I would recommend an AA-12 with explosive rounds; all that's still missing would be the rocket motor for the slugs.
For a heavier caliber, I recommend a look at the Soviet KS-23 shotgun, which fires caliber .90 slugs .. and with none of the fancy recoil-reducing gadgets used in the AA-12 (which you can even operate with a single hand, or outright dual-wield).

Also ... damn, this thread was old and dusty. How did you manage to dig this up?

The only difference between a human and Astartes boltgun would be the grip sizes. And possably less armor plating as Marines are known to use their weapons as clubs.

A marine bolter magazine might hold more ammunition too.


Of course there are probably tons of different models of Boltgun out there, all firing the same ammunition but with different specs on other parts of the gun.

*nods* True. In addition to this, the cross-section also shows a number of internal gadgets - I would not be surprised if particularly elite Imperial forces get guns who have "more tech" compared to a Commissar's pistol, or even what the gangs from Necromunda run around with.

Same "bullets", just no auto-repair function, or no autosense-link, or no palm print sensor etc - that's just fancy add-ons which may be standard for a Space Marine, or an Inquisitor, or a Sister of Battle ... but not a Guard Veteran.

I would go more with this round as a the closest thing to a bolt

a 12 gauge shotgun round (which that is) comes out to about a .72 cal and the bolts are said to be around .75 Cal


Here is a video of it you can also find some of it being fired from a full auto shotgun.

 Melissia wrote:


By the way, Bolters also seem to be described as having high recoil, or I recall such myself.

Every description I've read for bolters is that they fire 2 stage bolts and that stage 1 is a compressed gas propellant so that there is less recoil and allows for automatic fire.

 Grey Templar wrote:

I live in CA and you can carry a gun in full view in public as long as it isn't loaded and any ammo isn't in contact with the weapon.

Not very useful for protection then, huh?

As already mentioned, the closest thing we have to a boltgun is the AA12 with fragmentation rounds. Fully automatic, can be equipped with very large ammo drums, has very low recoil, and is extremely durable. They are a terrifying sight to behold.

 Haunter! wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

I live in CA and you can carry a gun in full view in public as long as it isn't loaded and any ammo isn't in contact with the weapon.

Not very useful for protection then, huh?

As already mentioned, the closest thing we have to a boltgun is the AA12 with fragmentation rounds. Fully automatic, can be equipped with very large ammo drums, has very low recoil, and is extremely durable. They are a terrifying sight to behold.

Don't forget the rockets, they accelerate the bolt further. That would be cool if someone took the internals for the AA-12 and put it in a bolter case and sold it on the market. I would be foaming at the mouth because of it.

@ nuke messiah-12 gauge is actually .73 cal, looking at a table of gauges right now.

 Grey Templar wrote:
if you look closely you can see the ejection port and don't tell me that its for Shells that don't fire properly. I doubt Bolt shells misfire very often(never had it happen in the fluff i have read)

Lol, obviously you've never been to Necromunda...

 ace101 wrote:

 Haunter! wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

I live in CA and you can carry a gun in full view in public as long as it isn't loaded and any ammo isn't in contact with the weapon.

Not very useful for protection then, huh?

As already mentioned, the closest thing we have to a boltgun is the AA12 with fragmentation rounds. Fully automatic, can be equipped with very large ammo drums, has very low recoil, and is extremely durable. They are a terrifying sight to behold.

Don't forget the rockets, they accelerate the bolt further. That would be cool if someone took the internals for the AA-12 and put it in a bolter case and sold it on the market. I would be foaming at the mouth because of it.

@ nuke messiah-12 gauge is actually .73 cal, looking at a table of gauges right now.

You are right I just rounded down instead of up as I should have .729

The USAS-12 is basically the same thing, and actually has a 20 round box magazine like the bolter, and can have select fire for military an police models. Civilian models have semi auto only, and its very hard to get them though.

At this current time. creating a "Bolter" would be easy with todays technology.

The gun itself is straight forwards. its a semi-auto/automatic gun only with very large ammunition.

The bolt is a amalgum of techologys that either have been developed already or are in testing.

A delayed impact fuse, rocket motor and shell casing it all it would require to make the bolt work. All of which have been developed, even if most of them are millitary equipment.
THe bolt is spun by the guns rifling already so the rocket motor would not need to be used as an alternate method of spinning the round (a civil war rocket tried it, It did not work as intended but was more accurate then the alternatives), it would only need to increase the forward speed but without looseing accuracy.

the explosive bolt properties are simple. just a charge in the bullet. the fuse would be a impact fuse with a slight delay to allow it to bury itself into the target to explode.


The only issue would be weight. such a weapon (even a human sized one) would be a heavy gun.

Depends. .75 cal ammo isn't that big and the gun wouldn't need to be much larger then a regular assault rifle. So weight of the ammunition and gun shouldn't be any more of an issue then an LMG.

We have plenty of recoil dampening technology to compensate for the larger round. We have a .50 sniper rifle. Just upscale it's dampening systems.

Lol I think the tech marine in charge of these bolters upleep would be in some trouble with all those jams!

 ace101 wrote:
I think that now the pistol ammunition is .75 while the rifle is .998. Also, for Soroitas and Arbitus forces, they make a smaller pattern that allows regular people to fire them.

If the recoil is as it was in the video, it must have been a .75, which like you guys said is a 12 gauge. If you want the true Astartes bolter, you'll need one of these, but only 5% bigger.

Holy wow, where did you dig up this thread from?

That machine gun looked awesome. Here in new Zealand your not allowed to have working automatic weapons with ammo unless you in the armed defender squad or the army. If you caught making one... Well good luck getting out of court. Only bolt actions and semis here; which is a good thing. I do know the guy that has the worlds biggest collection of tompson machine guns but the law let's him keep those as he own no ammo for the and keep them in a massive vault thing with two steel doors each with a different combinations and alarm system.